# msmith - taking care of mentally retarded people is cleaning up 'retard shit'? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2001, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075 "2001-06-16T23:41:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2001, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075/1 "2001-06-16T23:41:07Z")
This isn’t going to be a huge flaming rant, so don’t bother rating it! 🙂 On [this thread about “jobism” in GD](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=73134&pagenumber=1) msmith and I have been duking it out over the heirarchy of jobs, whether a burger-flipper is less than a CEO, that sort of thing. msmith said he’d “think less” of a person if he found out they were a burger flipper, as opposed to a lawyer. This caused a bit of debate, about how you don’t know the entire background of a person through their job. The thread has been going on for a while, with lots of long rambling posts (those are mostly mine 😉 ) and lots of back and forth. It’s gotten pretty heated at times, but I don’t think it’s too crazy as yet. I was curious to have msmith (who had even gone so far as to _make a list_ of job heirarchies - which is “high level”, and which is “lower level”) where my job fit. I take care of mentally retarded people. It’s not pretty, it’s thankless, but it feels good to help people. And, even though it doesn’t pay a lot, it has good benefits, and other “perks” that I enjoy (time to read during work, more time to do my pottery at home, that sort of thing.) So - msmith gives his assessment of my job, in his grand scheme of things. He doesn’t think much of it. And so I tell him that not everyone can handle it, and that he probably couldn’t. (Because he’d find it too “icky”, basically.) To which he replied: (bolding mine) > [@](#): > > And I could certainly wouldn’t pass out just from handling some **retard shit.** Now, I just didn’t that was a very nice thing to say. Is that all that there is to my job? Is that all these people I take care of are - “retards”? If you have a mentally retarded (or ‘developmentally disabled’ - they use both terms where I work) loved one, would you appreciate hearing them spoken about in such a manner? If you’ve ever held a job simular to mine, do you think that cleaning up “retard shit” is all there is to it? I’ll say it again, I just don’t think that was a very nice thing to say. ---
**Author:** ![kellibelli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e480ec/32.png) [@kellibelli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellibelli)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2001, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075/2 "2001-06-17T00:10:06Z")
Its nice to know there are decent people taking care of the handicapped, who are essentially helpless. I couldnt do it, I dont have the patience. I think people who not only CAN do it, but actually WANT to because they care, well, they are the tops of my personal job heirarchy list. You impact the quality of life every day for these people. _Retard Shit_? I think not. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2001, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075/3 "2001-06-17T00:16:57Z")
But I think I dont want to either. Yosemitebabe, I am glad you like your job and you feel good helping other people. I got a small cousin with Down syndrome, and I her parents are up there in my ‘important people’ list. They have done so much for her, and help her develop all she can. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2001, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075/4 "2001-06-17T00:39:43Z")
Thanks everyone! I feel I must further clarify some details of the GD thread in question. One of msmith’s criteria for a “higher level” job is the amount of education required to get it. Now, I am certainly respectful of education, but I think there are jobs that still deserve respect, whether or not it requires a Masters to get it. So, I pointed out that my job requires nothing more than a high school diploma. No special education, just the willingness to do it, and the temperament and patience. He seemed (if my memory serves - it’s a long thread) to base his lack of respect on my job because “anyone” could do it. No, what I meant was that “anyone” could apply to it (anyone with a pulse and a high school diploma) but not “anyone” is going to be doing it. Later on, (the next sentence after the “retard shit” crack, as a matter of fact) he did seem to make some grudging concession that my job maybe deserved _some_ respect, because it did involve helping people. Well, this seemed a little too late to me. He has had a history of “backsliding” on that thread, and re-phrasing certain things so he (in his mind, I think) won’t look like too much of a jerk after all. (In other words, as another poster put it, he talks out of both sides of his mouth.) So, I’ll quote a bit of what I wrote to him regarding this, on the GD thread in question: > [@](#): > > You say you have some respect for my job because it helps people, but you almost simultaniously diminish it down to “retard shit”. That wasn’t very nice, and it kinda negates anything (grudgingly) charitable that you may have (half-ass) said about it. “Retard shit” - it just wasn’t nice. It was gratuitous. It needn’t have been phrased that way. I think it reveals a whole lot about the person who wrote it, personally. ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2001, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075/5 "2001-06-17T00:55:03Z")
> [@](#): > > I think it reveals a whole lot about the person who wrote it, personally. I’ve often thought that the gratuitous “but it was just a figure of speech!” types of comments people make without thinking about it reveal more interesting facets of them then carefully thought-out and composed statements. This thought ties into why I think it’s emphatically a Good Thing that post-editting is disabled here. Anyway, I’ve not even looked at the thread, but I’ve met burger flippers who I’ve thought much more highly of than a couple lawyers I’ve met–and vice versa. And I rather doubt I could do what you do, I’d be done in by depression probably. ---
**Author:** ![FunkDaddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@FunkDaddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FunkDaddy)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2001, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075/6 "2001-06-17T02:00:25Z")
YB: I respect your job very much - I work at the moment in a detox centre. Sure, my job requires a degree and whatnot, blah blah blah, but do you know the staff who do the best job? The alcoholics we have on staff are, far and away, the best employees at the place. I can’t hold a candle to the skills they have in dealing with the clientele we service. Most of them hold no formal education. They are all sober (most for 10+ years, all for at least 7 years). They all still struggle with addictions issues, and can relate to the clients on a much more personal level. All my training in addictions issues isn’t worth squat compared to that. Education can only do so much… the remainder of a good job is intangible, but you sure as hell know when it’s missing. I partially determine the value of a job based on how undesirable I find it - if I don’t want to do it because I would find it too taxing, or don’t feel I have the patience/skills for the job, I think it deserves respect. I could have applied for a job as a Behavior Management Specialist (BMS) at almost twice the pay rate I get now, but I can’t handle children at all. I don’t relate well to them. I can’t imagine attempting to deal with developmentally delayed children. The closest thing I managed was counselling a 15 year old high-functioning autistic child and that was trying enough. I’ll leave the DD kids to you - I can’t manage their behavior. Hats off. 🙂 F-Diddy. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2001, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075/7 "2001-06-17T03:21:24Z")
Well, I have to agree, that _that_ particular comment was a little disrespectful. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Father\_Pacelli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Father\_Pacelli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Father_Pacelli)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2001, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075/8 "2001-06-17T06:50:22Z")
Speaking of jobs, I’d rather be friends with an honest janitor than a crooked Senator. As for those who help the handicapped, my hat is off to them. That job reqires more patience than I have. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2001, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075/9 "2001-06-17T15:43:50Z")
I’ve got a slightly more vicious response to what **Msmith** had to say to **Yosemite**. Listen here you narrowminded cocksucker. The day will come- and if we are all very luck here at the SDMB, it will come much sooner rather than later- when you will be infirmed. You will be incapable of maintaining your own hygeine. Personally, I’d prefer to find out that your mind is 100% there and you are trapped in a body that has left you helpless. You will be in need of personal care. Care given by kind people. People who don’t judge humans by their billable hours, you shitfuck toady bigoted motherfucker, but by the fact simply that they are another human, in need. If there’s a God, you won’t be able to find help. And there you will sit. In your feces. Becoming sicker, and more infected, because the only people you reach out to for help are people whose minds are as twisted as your own. There are people who are able to see the human within the injured/damaged/old machine, and love the human even as they care for the machine in it’s state of decay. I’ve worked as a nurse’s aide at a nursing home ( translates to mean, " go clean up Mr. Jones please), and have worked at a summer camp for mentally retarded adults. I admire and respect **Yosemitebabe** , now more than ever. Not diefying her, because I’ve slogged those tiring yet gratifying hallways too. But I sure as hell do respect her. **Msmith** , you not only do not have the respect of most of the people in this community, you’ve now earned their disgust. Fuck off. :mad: Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2001, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075/10 "2001-06-17T17:59:51Z")
Word, **'toon**. And with my college degree, I work in a restaurant because I enjoy it, because I’m not obsessed with status or money. I’ve avoided posting in that thread for that very reason. ---
**Author:** ![moggy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8c91f0/32.png) [@moggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moggy)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2001, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075/11 "2001-06-17T18:01:26Z")
Yosemitebabe, I used to work in an animal hospital. A lot of people thought “oh, how fun, you get to play with the animals all day.” One of my co-worker’s father’s golf buddies used to ask her “So, ya still picking up dog shit for a living?” Most people don’t have ANY idea what goes on in a job like that, where you are doing a public service, whether it’s as a vet tech or as a caretaker for mentally retarded people. When I would tell my friends how intense and hectic it got at times, they were amazed. It made me feel good to know that we were helping animals when they were sick or injured. It IS a thankless job, and I don’t think a lot of people would have the stamina or stomach to do things like that. People that belittle professions where people are caregivers are idiots. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2001, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075/12 "2001-06-17T18:08:39Z")
Check that . . . worked in a restaurant. Now I play with computers, also because I enjoy it. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2001, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075/13 "2001-06-17T19:33:14Z")
Thanks everyone. I appreciate all your comments. And I knew there were other people who had simular job experiences to mine, and would _know_ that not “anyone could do it.” It isn’t like I am the _best_ at what I do (I always think I could be better.) It isn’t like I deserve a halo - it’s a job, it pays the bills, that’s a big part of why I’m there! But I do have some pride in what I do, and I’m glad I have a job that involves helping people. I certainly don’t see it as just dealing with “shit”. And it would _never_ occur to me to think that someone who worked in a vet’s office was just “cleaning up dog shit” either. That’s just so disrespectful - to say it like that. Why would anyone even _think_ such a thing? Cartoon - I appreciate your rage! But, I hope this msmith person is not beyond hope of understanding. It would be too depressing if he was. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2001, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075/14 "2001-06-17T22:06:07Z")
**yosemitebabe** , I don’t think **msmith** is a bad person, but he may be beyond understanding other points of view. As I mentioned in the thread in question, I think he has a bad case of buying into the traditional American way (where people are judged by how much money they make, where they live, what kind of car they drive, and what they do for a living), and he can’t see the value in anyone else living by any other standards. In my experience, people who live by his standards often seem to be unhappy, unfulfilled souls who have never taken the time to figure out what would make _them_ happy, rather than just jumping in and racing with the rats for 40 years like it’s always been done. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2001, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075/15 "2001-06-17T22:35:36Z")
Some name calling bothers me more than others. I put ‘retard’ right up there with all the nastiest racial slurs, and it always tinges my sense of the person. Isn’t this the same one that was ragging on Chelsea Clinton’s looks in the Bush twins drinking threads? I guess I wouldn’t ever worry about how some one such as that would ‘rate’ me. See, **yosemite** we **can** agree on more than one issue! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2001, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075/16 "2001-06-17T23:18:49Z")
> [@](#): > > _featherlou wrote:_ > I don’t think msmith is a bad person, but he may be beyond understanding other points of view. As I mentioned in the thread in question, I think he has a bad case of buying into the traditional American way (where people are judged by how much money they make, where they live, what kind of car they drive, and what they do for a living), and he can’t see the value in anyone else living by any other standards. You hit the nail on the head, there. No, I don’t think he’s “bad” either, but man, oh man. I think he has so much to learn. (And this is saying a lot from me, since I still feel like I have a **TON** to learn!) And he seems to me to be a bit desperate to hang onto this American Way Dream, (delusion, is what I call it 😉 ) which may end up causing him sorrow in the end. I think you are right on all counts. Wring - I’ve always admired you, and yeah, we agree on more than a few things! And yes, I am astonished that an otherwise “educated” person like msmith wouldn’t realize that using “retard” is really inappropriate, particularly under the circumstances. I’ve always considered it a very mean word, _especially_ when used to describe the mentally retarded. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2001, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075/17 "2001-06-17T23:39:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > \*\*Wring - I’ve always admired you, and yeah, we agree on more than a few things! And yes, I am astonished that an otherwise “educated” person like msmith wouldn’t realize that using “retard” is really inappropriate, particularly under the circumstances. I’ve always considered it a very mean word, _especially_ when used to describe the mentally retarded. \*\* why, thanks, and back atchya, too. Perhaps he failed to read the thread [retarded is a dirty word](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=72254) ?? ---
**Author:** ![DrewG27](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DrewG27](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrewG27)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2001, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075/18 "2001-06-17T23:52:04Z")
But… 1. “Retard Shit”. Thats defiently not what you do. I have a lot of respect for someone who does that kind of work. No, just anyone could not do that just because it only requires a high school education. For example, my uncle, probably one of, if not the, smartest people I know had no education beyond high school. Just because you only had an education to high school doesnt make your job any less challenging. HOWEVER, 1. I would probably tend to, well, have more faith in someone who was a lawyer, CEO, etc. than that of a delivery boy/burger flipper. I guess this is an unfound prejudice, but its just how I think. It would, however, only be my first impression, and if I came to get to know something beyond just what they do, my impression could change greatly, you know? Just my two cents. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2001, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075/19 "2001-06-18T00:02:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrewG27 \* > \*\*HOWEVER, > > 1. I would probably tend to, well, have more faith in someone who was a lawyer, CEO, etc. than that of a delivery boy/burger flipper. I guess this is an unfound prejudice, but its just how I think. It would, however, only be my first impression, and if I came to get to know something beyond just what they do, my impression could change greatly, you know? > > Just my two cents. \*\* faith?? in what way? I’d say you’d probably be correct that the CEO/lawyer had more formal education (not always - I had a client who had a masters degree in computer engineering, but then had a serious mental breakdown, couldn’t go back to that field and **wanted** the burger flipping job). But, frankly, that’s about all that I’d personally be willing to assume from those facts. Certainly I’ve met loads of folks who were educated and well, not the sharpest pencil in the case, and others who hadn’t been very far in school who were. And that’s just scanning them for the ‘education/smart’ part, not for things like compassion, and other fine human qualities (not that being a CEO precludes one from having compassion…) ---
**Author:** ![Feynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@Feynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feynn)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2001, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075/20 "2001-06-18T05:25:55Z")
I am a rehabilitation worker as many of you know and I work with developmentally delayed and physically handicapped individuals. Some people might call them retarded while I prefer to call them by their first names, they like that so much better as they are people just like you and I. I am a passionate and vocal advocate for the clients I serve and my chosen profession. I take offense at anyone who might rate this occupation as “dead end” or that it requires little skill. It does not merely take a high school diploma to be good in my field and most people I work with have a minimum of two years of college while many more have degrees in varying related fields. Maybe things are different in Canada? Education alone does not qualify an individual to take care of the disabled. One has to have the patience of a saint, a strong will, a good understanding of professional ethics, and most of all, empathy. This is just a start. My position requires that I have excellent human relations and communication skills, a good knowledge of accounting, precise written skills, training in behavioural management and in program design. I don’t see what I do as a job, it’s a calling that brings me joy every day. I have done things that made me more money and left me empty inside, being able to make someone’s life better is a gift. When a client says “thank you” for just being there I know I am doing something right. The Quran says that those who take care of the less fortunate are to revered for theirs is a noble calling. I would dare anyone to come and do my job for a week and then be able to tell me it wasn’t one of the most challenging things they have ever done. I have had countless other professionals and laypersons tell me that there was no way they could do what I do. Yosemite, remember that there are countless people who could not do your job. It takes a very special individual to dedicate themselves to the caring of others, especially when it can often seem thankless. Your clients are probably really happy to have someone who cares taking care of them. And ditto to what Cartooniverse said too. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith-taking-care-of-mentally-retarded-people-is-cleaning-up-retard-shit/69075.md?page=2)