# msmith537, What is your major malfunction? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 24, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333 "2005-05-24T21:28:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333/101 "2005-05-28T19:31:51Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Why not? Academics analyze an author’s background all the time to understand his or her writings and motivations. **msmith537’s** writings were being critiqued so I decided to share that little tidbit of background that was directly relevant to the way that I read the selected quotes. I’m not saying that background is irrelevant. I’m saying that this particular piece of information—the fact that he happened to work for a company that was conscious of the place of women in the workforce—is no evidence of anything. I’m sure it was entirely possible to work for such a company and be a complete misogynist, as long as it didn’t affect anyone’s work. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333/102 "2005-05-28T19:41:47Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I’m not saying that background is irrelevant. I’m saying that this particular piece of information—the fact that he happened to work for a company that was conscious of the place of women in the workforce—is no evidence of anything. It is when you consider the fact that someone chose to work in an environment where that is a blaring priority and also when you see their behavior once they are there. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333/103 "2005-05-28T19:45:22Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > It is when you consider the fact that someone chose to work in an environment where that is a blaring priority and also when you see their behavior once they are there. Did this “priority” play any role whatsoever in his decision to take the job? Or was it mere coincidence? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333/104 "2005-05-28T19:53:51Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Did this “priority” play any role whatsoever in his decision to take the job? Or was it mere coincidence? It played a role because I was thinking about having kids at the time (before it actually happened). They had really good on-site day-care, and you were free to visit your child during the day. Also, the general attitude that they were “Working Mother” friendly meant that the expected work hours were laughable to be quite honest with you. The “Working Woman” atmosphere was quite blatant so that’s why I thought it was so ironic that I knew the character depicted in this thread in a environment that was the antithesis of that. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333/105 "2005-05-28T19:57:53Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > It played a role because I was thinking about having kids at the time (before it actually happened). They had really good on-site day-care, and you were free to visit your child during the day. Also, the general attitude that they were “Working Mother” friendly meant that the expected work hours were laughable to be quite honest with you. The “Working Woman” atmosphere was quite blatant so that’s why I thought it was so ironic that I knew the character depicted in this thread in a environment that was the antithesis of that. I wasn’t asking about you, i was asking about **msmith537** , which is who this thread is about. And there’s still nothing ironic about it. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333/106 "2005-05-29T00:50:48Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I wasn’t asking about you, i was asking about **msmith537** , which is who this thread is about. > > And there’s still nothing ironic about it. uh…I took the job because I like women ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333/107 "2005-05-29T01:13:17Z")
This isn’t directed specifically at you, **msmith537** , because I hold no opinion on your misogyny, or lack thereof. I’d simply like to observe that one of the nastiest misogynists I ever encountered used to proclaim loudly and often that he loved women. Well, he sure loved using them, and telling viciously sexist jokes about them, and browbeating them, I can tell you that. (Of course, he may have been an outlier. He was also a vicious bigot about blacks, Jews, in fact it was hard to tell sometimes who he didn’t despise other than white guys with power.) I repeat – I’m not accusing you of hypocrisy in stating you took the job because you like women. All I’m saying is that actions speak louder than words – or, in the case of a message board, interactions with other posters say more than self-assessments. If you frequently find yourself being accused of misogyny, by more than a scattered few other Dopers, then it might be a good idea to step back from your confidence in your lack of sexism and reread the posts that evoke hostility with an eye seeking possible sources of offense. Try, if you can, to put aside what you believe to be your intent, and read the posts that spark a blowback with the mindset that, yes, it is quite possible that what I said was offensive. You may find a pattern in the type(s) of posts that will set off negative reactions. Assuming you are of the goodwill you assert, you can analyze what the heck it is that’s pushing buttons and, if you choose to, alter the posting pattern(s) that can get you in hot water. One thing I’ve learned from posting here is that one really must think over one’s posts with an eye to how words on a screen will read to others without the visual and auditory nuances that speech provides. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333/108 "2005-05-29T01:42:28Z")
It’s also a good idea around here to be prepared for some serious disagreement before claiming _everyone_ in any group is X, Y, or Z. It’s sloppy thinking, not to mention usually indefensible. Either be prepared to back up the blanket characterization or get your ass handed to you. Humanity isn’t issued in neat, uniform factory lots. Not that it can’t be amusing to watch people try to force everyone else to fit into their prejudices. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333/109 "2005-05-29T05:34:32Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Hello, McFly? As I already stated, in a point by point post, I don’t see the misogyny in those links. So if I’m to take you at your word, he’s been a good boy for the last 6 months. Hardly a compelling argument. > > \ > > … And yet I disagree with your evidence, so in my eyes, you are guilty of being disingenuous, exagerating, or are simply being willfully deceitful. I don’t need a long list. Just a few would suffice. Please, provide evidence. But apparently it’s going to all be from longer than 6 months ago. Hold a grudge much?I don’t give a fuck who’s defending whom; I’ll call out behavior from anybody. Whereas you, OTOH, seem to take the same message differently depending on who posts it. Hm. So, if I provide “proof” good enough for you, I’m holding a grudge, and if I don’t, I’m “disengenuous” and “willfully deceitful”? Nice catch 22. But, it would appear that several posters of both gender back up my assertions, a moderator included. So fuck off, you supercillious little dweeb. I don’t have to prove shit to you. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333/110 "2005-05-29T05:51:07Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > . But, it would appear that several posters of both gender back up my assertions, a moderator included. FTR, I wasn’t posting as a moderator. I posted as a poster, amused at someone who walked–no, _stomped_–grandly right into a trap of his own making. **msmith** wasn’t the first, and he won’t be the last. It didn’t make him a troglodyte or a jerk, nor his critics shrill, hyper-senstive PC idiots All in all, it was the usual give-and-take of discussions around here. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333/111 "2005-05-29T09:19:39Z")
Actually, I could see how working for a company which gets high marks for the way it treats working mothers could make a person more of a misogynist simply because such a person could see mothers as being given advantages and privileges he or she doesn’t have. I’ve got male coworkers who’ll leave work early to do things like take their daughters to the doctor. I’m a woman, but I don’t have kids and I’ve been known to want to leave early because of weekend plans. If the former is ok, but not the latter, especially if the sexes were reversed, I could see how it could add to some resentment of women as a whole. CJ ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333/112 "2005-05-29T22:03:25Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Hm. So, if I provide “proof” good enough for you, I’m holding a grudge, and if I don’t, I’m “disengenuous” and “willfully deceitful”? Nice catch 22. But, it would appear that several posters of both gender back up my assertions, a moderator included. So fuck off, you supercillious little dweeb. I don’t have to prove shit to you. You are the one who said you posted his exploits from the past six months. Apparently there are other examples you could cite from that time period. I’m all ears. Until then, I remain unconvinced. So fuck off, you whiny cunt. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333/113 "2005-05-30T04:20:49Z")
**Ellis Dee** , would you accept that **msmith’s** comments on this message board are offensive to some women? Cause they are, you know. I’m a woman, and I have found his comments offensive for as long as I can remember reading posts by him. This pitting has been brewing for a long time. I usually just read his ignorant stuff, shrug it off, and move on, but I back **Maureen** 100% in this pitting. **Shagnasty** , you say **msmith** isn’t a misogynist in real life; maybe he should take more care not to sound like one on a message board, then. Or not. His choice, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333/114 "2005-05-30T05:06:06Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > You are the one who said you posted his exploits from the past six months. Apparently there are other examples you could cite from that time period. I’m all ears. Until then, I remain unconvinced. > > So fuck off, you whiny cunt. Gee, I’m overcome with remorse. Hello, McFly? Who says that anymore? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333/115 "2005-05-30T05:08:53Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > **Ellis Dee** , would you accept that **msmith’s** comments on this message board are offensive to some women? Cause they are, you know. I’m a woman, and I have found his comments offensive for as long as I can remember reading posts by him. This pitting has been brewing for a long time. I usually just read his ignorant stuff, shrug it off, and move on, but I back **Maureen** 100% in this pitting. Quite possibly, sure. I’d debate the points I already debated, but I haven’t read every post of his. I get that his tone may rub women the wrong way. Do you disagree with the specific rebuttals I made in [post=6202317]this post[/post]? Would you be willing to concede that some women might be overly sensitive to anything said by **msmith** specifically, whereas the same text from another poster wouldn’t come across as offensive? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333/116 "2005-05-30T05:12:58Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Would you be willing to concede that some women might be overly sensitive to anything said by **msmith** specifically, whereas the same text from another poster wouldn’t come across as offensive? I would agree with that, as **featherlou** has made pretty much the same points I have, but you don’t seem to feel the necessity to respond to her with as much vitriol. I don’t believe other posters make such a point of making such obnoxious references to women with the frequency **msmith** does. The occasional joke doesn’t come off as mysoginistic if it’s occasional as compared to consistent. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2005, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333/117 "2005-05-30T05:46:18Z")
I tend to respond more reasonably to more reasonable posts. Now, I’m not blameless in our little flame escalation by a long shot; I’d say we both amped up the vitriol incrementally in each response. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2005, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333/118 "2005-05-31T03:47:58Z")
Ellis, **msmith’s** comments in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6097130&postcount=32) were direct insults to a specific poster, and attempt to portray her as an embodiment of the stereotype she claimed did not apply to her. I **might** give **msmith** a pass on some of his other posts, with his comments in **Happy Scrappy** ’s recent thread specifically excluded, but the post I linked crossed a line. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333/119 "2005-05-31T03:52:04Z")
From Rilch’s, oops, I mean _Rilchiam’s_ link: > [@](#): > > \*Here is what I mean when I say things. \* > I want to go home with you and have sex. > > _Believe it or not, all women are not evil bitches._ > We are all evil bitches. Come on! Those were fuckin’ hilarious. Seriously. Did you not find those funny _at all_? ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2005, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333/120 "2005-05-31T04:06:54Z")
Obviously not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msmith537-what-is-your-major-malfunction/305333.md?page=7)