# MSNBC: Socialist is the new 'n' word **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2009, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171 "2009-08-12T13:35:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171/21 "2009-08-12T16:01:28Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Sure, but it flows both ways. Implying they’re racist is surrogate beef as well. A pretend beef to avoid having actually address valid criticisms. I’m not implying they’re racist, I’m SAYING it. They’re racist. And “valid criticisms.” heh heh. Good one. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171/22 "2009-08-12T16:07:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Without wanting to show support for MSNBC’s comparison (which I agree is ridiculous), you have to admit that the right have been tarring everyone who’s left of Arlen Specter with the “socialist” label for a good 6 months now. Oh, much longer than **that!** ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171/23 "2009-08-12T16:10:43Z")
Honestly…if this is the best conservatives can come up with to get their panty’s in a wad showing how over the top the “liberal” MSM is the words “molehill” and “mountain” leap to mind. At best this deserves a :rolleyes: at linking the two words. Hardly worth getting in a big fuss about unless “socialist” miraculously becomes a stigmatized word like the n-word is. Compared to the the avalanche of craziness coming from conservative MSM outlets like Limbaugh and Coulter and Malkin and Beck and O’Reilly and Hannity (to name a few) this is a ripple in an ocean of absurdity. Sorry, just cannot generate a lot of righteous indignation over this one. Maybe I have been desensitized to idiocy though. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171/24 "2009-08-12T16:11:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Not so much a code word as a surrogate beef. A pretended beef to avoid having to voice their real beef. Indeed. From [_The Nation:_](http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion/455452/the_birthers_of_a_nation) > [@](#): > > Of course, the Lady in Red couldn’t scream the N-word in a townhall meeting (which, by the way, was called to discuss healthcare reform), so she screamed about his birth certificate. Karl Rove mentor Lee Atwater called this shot nearly three decades ago, when he explained how the Republican Party should parse its racism for the 20th century and beyond: > > > [@](#): > > > > You start out in 1954 by saying, `Nigger, nigger, nigger.' By 1968 you can't say `nigger’–that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff. You’re getting so abstract now [that] you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. > > And now, finally, things have become so algebraic that the base goes totally into denial, refusing to see a notarized public document as it’s waved right under their noses, and the whole nativist scheme falls into ridicule. > > The Birthers go beyond simple conspiracy theories–they’re cast members of the ongoing American denying-reality show, not unlike the folks who deny the moonlanding or the Holocaust (like James von Brunn, the octogenarian who killed a guard at the Washington, D.C., Holocaust Museum and who had earlier posted a screed entitled “WHO SENT YOU???,” charging that Obama is utterly undocumented), and very much like the Creationists who insist that the Earth is but 6,000 years old, the Teabaggers who refuse to believe they must pay taxes, the 9/11 Truthers who say the government attacked the Twin Towers, and, as we might call them, the Inhofers who believe global warming is a hoax. > > The word Birther itself comes trailing clouds of associative fog. It’s unclear who minted the term, but for the true believers themselves, it can have a positive ring. When I first heard of Birthers I thought maybe they were subscribers to some sub-catechism about the birth of Christ or an offshoot of the anti-abortion movement–pro-life, pro-birth. Which makes sense: The Bircher, er, Birther movement is born from the same psychology that can trace social unease to a single issue–if we could only stop abortion, we could turn the clock back to Father Knows Best; if we could abolish all gun control, we could restore the eye-for-an-eye justice of the Old West; if we could only prove that Barack Obama was “born in Kenya,” his presidency would go away and White Power would be restored. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171/25 "2009-08-12T16:24:20Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > It was not an analogy. He was calling ‘socialist’ a code word for the ‘n’ word. Watch the linked video. You should watch the linked video more closely, because you’re the one who is incorrect. He was NOT “calling ‘socialist’ a code word **for** the ‘n’ word,” as you suggest. As the quote provided by **Marley23** shows, he was saying that socialist was becoming a code word in **much the same way** as the ‘n’ word. He was not suggesting that the use of the word “socialist” had anything to do with race. He was suggesting that it is being used in a way similar to the way the word “nigger” is used, as a “generic…bludgeoning tool.” I think hes right about the way the word is being used, even though i’m pretty sure that “nigger” was not the best comparison he could make here. There are other words that strike me as more analogous to the word “socialist” in this context, words that relate more to a person’s political worldview than to their skin color or physical appearance. Words like: communist anti-American right-wing nutjob tighty-righty hand-stabber fundy tree-hugger I’m sure there are plenty of others i’ve missed. Current (over)use of the word “socialist” continues in the tradition of all these words, in that it is designed to condemn someone before they even speak, to poison people against them before their ideas are even expressed, and to shout their argument down rather than respond to it in a meaningful way. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171/26 "2009-08-12T16:38:57Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > He was not suggesting that the use of the word “socialist” had anything to do with race. He was suggesting that it is being used in a way similar to the way the word “nigger” is used, as a “generic…bludgeoning tool.” Bullshit. Any number of words are used as generic bludgeoning tools. ‘Asshole’, ‘Jerk’, ‘Dick’, ‘Commie’, etc. Why not compare ‘socialist’ to them? Instead, he very explicitly and carefuly chose the ‘n’ word so that the association was made that calling somebody socialist was racist. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171/27 "2009-08-12T16:43:24Z")
In their case it usually is. One thing’s for sure. They aren’t actually using it to mean “socialist,” because it’s not applicable to their targets. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171/28 "2009-08-12T16:45:00Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Bullshit. Any number of words are used as generic bludgeoning tools. ‘Asshole’, ‘Jerk’, ‘Dick’, ‘Commie’, etc. Why not compare ‘socialist’ to them? > > Instead, he very explicitly and carefuly chose the ‘n’ word so that the association was made that calling somebody socialist was racist. You’re a fucking retarded moron. How’s that for a generic bludgeon? Except that, in this case, it’s specific to you. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171/29 "2009-08-12T16:45:44Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > You should watch the linked video more closely, because you’re the one who is incorrect. > > He was NOT “calling ‘socialist’ a code word **for** the ‘n’ word,” as you suggest. As the quote provided by **Marley23** shows, he was saying that socialist was becoming a code word in **much the same way** as the ‘n’ word. > > He was not suggesting that the use of the word “socialist” had anything to do with race. He was suggesting that it is being used in a way similar to the way the word “nigger” is used, as a “generic…bludgeoning tool.” I have to disagree with you there, actually. He was wondering if ‘socialist’ is becoming a code word for nigger, the same way words like ‘Canadian’ (to everybody’s amazement) sometimes gets used that way. “Nigger” isn’t a generic bludgeoning tool. It’s not used against everyone who conservatives get pissed at. A real example of those tools would be “anti-American.” The guy was wondering if some of the birthers and town hall people are calling Obama a socialist because they know they can’t call him a nigger. While the birthers are racist, not all of the town hall people are. (I’m sure some of them are, since it’s hard to think of another interpretation for the screaming about ‘my country is being taken away from me!’) I haven’t heard these comments about lynching, and just yesterday, a somebody spray-painted a swastika outside the office of black Congressman in Georgia. So there is some racism mixed up in there, but it’s not being expressed by the word socialist alone. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171/30 "2009-08-12T16:55:45Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > In their case it usually is. One thing’s for sure. They aren’t actually using it to mean “socialist,” because it’s not applicable to their targets. You presume the people using the word (in the context of Town Hells and such) have a clue what the word means. I am willing to bet they _think_ they have a clue and are using it correctly but if pressed it would become immediately apparent they have no clue WTF they are talking about. For you to be correct they’d have to actually understand the word and its actual meanings. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171/31 "2009-08-12T16:56:51Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Hey, I think both sides of the aisle can agree on this one! > > No. Palin’s not a Socialist. \ ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171/32 "2009-08-12T17:02:20Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > You’re assuming that the town hellers are aware of that fact. Given their stunning displays of ignorance and closemindedness overall, I’d call that highly unlikely. Bush started the bailouts? Next you’ll be telling us that Medicare is a public program! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171/33 "2009-08-12T17:03:56Z")
**Marley23** : Well, i guess the reference to lynching does, indeed, suggest that you might be right. I think the commentator should have been a little clearer about exactly what he meant, but i concede that i might have misinterpreted him. I’m not completely convinced, but i think there’s enough evidence that i shouldn’t have dismissed it out of hand. Apologies to **Sinaijon**. If you guys are right, and Watson _was_ saying that people are “calling Obama a socialist because they know they can’t call him a nigger,” then i think that, while he might be right for a certain number of them (i don’t know how many), he is also reading way too much into this. I believe that if, say, Hillary Clinton or John Kerry had been elected president, and had tried to enact the same sorts of policies as Obama, conservatives would have been just as liberal (heh) in their use of the word socialist. The people yelling “socialist” every time someone tries to make an argument for healthcare reform might be uninformed, they might be idiots, they might be bullies, but i don’t think that it’s right to say, just because they use the word socialist, that they’re racists. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171/34 "2009-08-12T17:10:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > you have to admit that the right have been tarring everyone who’s left of Arlen Specter with the “socialist” label for a good 6 months now. Make that “left of and including.” > [@](#): > > [Facing more heated questions, Specter tries humor](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/08/11/national/a135500D95.DTL) > > Sen. Arlen Specter, facing more jeers and taunts during another town hall meeting Wednesday, sought to defuse tensions about health care reform debate with a few jokes. > > [snip] > > “What’s up with all this? This is socialism,” said Randy Hook, 50, of Hopewell, being cheered on by some attendees. “What about the money and speed of all this? If this is for the people what’s the big hurry.” > > After looking Hook in the eye, Specter walked away and answered, “We’re slowing down. We’re taking our time to do it right.” ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171/35 "2009-08-12T17:13:16Z")
It’s a typical Obamabot maneuver - calling every criticism against Obama racist. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171/36 "2009-08-12T17:15:39Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Not so much a code word as a surrogate beef. A pretended beef to avoid having to voice their real beef. The _veggie burger of their discontent_, if you will. ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171/37 "2009-08-12T17:23:52Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > You should watch the linked video more closely, because you’re the one who is incorrect. > > He was NOT “calling ‘socialist’ a code word **for** the ‘n’ word,” as you suggest. As the quote provided by **Marley23** shows, he was saying that socialist was becoming a code word in **much the same way** as the ‘n’ word. > > He was not suggesting that the use of the word “socialist” had anything to do with race. He was suggesting that it is being used in a way similar to the way the word “nigger” is used, as a “generic…bludgeoning tool.” > > I think hes right about the way the word is being used, even though i’m pretty sure that “nigger” was not the best comparison he could make here. There are other words that strike me as more analogous to the word “socialist” in this context, words that relate more to a person’s political worldview than to their skin color or physical appearance. Words like: > > communist > anti-American > right-wing nutjob > tighty-righty > hand-stabber > fundy > tree-hugger > > I’m sure there are plenty of others i’ve missed. > > Current (over)use of the word “socialist” continues in the tradition of all these words, in that it is designed to condemn someone before they even speak, to poison people against them before their ideas are even expressed, and to shout their argument down rather than respond to it in a meaningful way. I’m sure this is correct. But I’m also sure that it was not a coincidence that MSNBC used the “N-word” rather than all the other examples you just gave. As Obamabot central, I’m sure they wouldn’t mind if people begin to associate the charge of socialism with racism in the same way that they are trying to associate just about every criticism made against Obama as racist. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171/38 "2009-08-12T17:27:20Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > It’s a typical Obamabot maneuver - calling every criticism against Obama racist. [Yeah, I don’t know where they get their ideas.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/12/AR2009081200895.html) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171/39 "2009-08-12T17:28:06Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > The _veggie burger of their discontent_, if you will. Oh, well done. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171/40 "2009-08-12T17:31:07Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > It’s a typical Obamabot maneuver - calling every criticism against Obama racist. A far more intelligent and defensible approach, at any rate, than usage of the word “Obamabot.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbc-socialist-is-the-new-n-word/506171.md?page=3)