# MSNBC's Savage Nation is no more! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 7, 2003, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846 "2003-07-07T20:22:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/61 "2003-07-08T13:13:41Z")
> [@](#): > > gobear, I’m on the far left and I’ve never met or spoken to anyone on the left who “embraces” Fidel Castro. I guess you’ve never met Oliver Stone, Noam Chomsky, or Gabriel Garcia Marquez. > [@](#): > > At worse you might get tofu-eating, recycling, California Pagans but I don’t know of a liberal counter-culture which is actually grounded in hate as there is on the right. If you had written this post in 1973, I would have been able to pull cite after cite of hate-driven leftist politics, from the SLA to the Red Guard. Nowadays I agree that the far right is far more poisonous than the far left, but all y’all, left and right, still exalt ideology over the practical concerns of everyday people. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/62 "2003-07-08T13:23:32Z")
[quote] still exalt ideology over the practical concerns of everyday peoplep/quote] Definitely true, but what do we do about it? Hatred sure seems to be effective. but if you fight against it, it’s reverse discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/63 "2003-07-08T13:26:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Leaper \* > \*\* > Conservatives in general aren’t really like **that** , are they? (Feel free to imagine what sort of viewpoints would constitute **that** , the sort of venom and distortions that would put the fear of God, pun intended, into me.) There are so many reasonable, intelligent conservatives on this board that I can’t help feel like I’ve been spoiled somehow. Even **december** , who is often the target of so much invective, is really a good guy, ESPECIALLY in comparison to a lot of the stuff I just read. Conservatives out there, PLEASE reassure me that the Republican party really ISN’T listening to people like those on those forums! > > Anyway, never again. Ever. \*\* Out of curiosity I listened to Hannity’s show yesterday to see what people were saying about this. He said he was reserving judgement until he saw the clip for himself, but when a caller confirmed that Savage had indeed said those things, _Hannity_ even said he had gone too far, that he wouldn’t say those things to his worst enemy, and said if it was true then Savage should apologize immediately. Now I’m no follower of Hannity but if even he thinks Savage should apologize, I’m not sure how many ultra-right-wingers are standing behind Savage on this one. If Hannity thinks you are too conservative…well, I don’t know what to say. I know Savage has a pretty large following but I think a lot of people were shocked by this one. I think (hope?) he will lose a lot of respect after this, and hopefully advertisers won’t touch him now. ---
**Author:** ![Tedster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@Tedster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tedster)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/64 "2003-07-08T13:29:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*I don’t know of a liberal counter-culture which is actually grounded in hate as there is on the right. \*\* You need to get out more. The Earth First! types certainly qualify. There’s nothing quite so intolerant as a “liberal” after all. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/65 "2003-07-08T13:34:17Z")
Rexdart said, “If they (MSNBC) did their homework, read the book, listened to a few hours of the radio program, they’d have known exactly what they were getting.” They did all of the above and knew EXACTLY what they were getting. They were purchasing high ratings. Which is what TV stations do. In today’s climate of post-9/11, flag-waving, patriotism-spewing, right-wing “Americans”, they were gambling that this guy would draw in the conservative crowd without offending the “others” too much. I think it was a carefully calculated move that HAD to self-destruct sooner or later. It just happened sooner. ---
**Author:** ![Tedster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@Tedster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tedster)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/66 "2003-07-08T13:38:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*I don’t know of a liberal counter-culture which is actually grounded in hate as there is on the right. \*\* You need to get out more. The Earth First! types certainly qualify. There’s nothing quite so intolerant as a “liberal” after all. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/67 "2003-07-08T14:58:39Z")
> [@](#): > > I guess you’ve never met Oliver Stone, Noam Chomsky, or Gabriel Garcia Marquez. Like I said, a few silly socialists, not a cultural movement. ---
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/68 "2003-07-08T15:01:58Z")
[The REAL story](http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/SavageTVShow.html) behind the cancellation, as told by Michael Savage. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/69 "2003-07-08T15:13:12Z")
> [@](#): > > I especially appeal to my many listeners in the gay community to accept my apologies for any inadvertent insults which may have occurred. That’s amusing. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/70 "2003-07-08T15:23:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Creative\_Munster \* > I listened to that clip a couple of times now. What the hell set him off? Maybe the caller was his ex. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/71 "2003-07-08T15:23:39Z")
> [@](#): > > You need to get out more. The Earth First! types certainly qualify. There’s nothing quite so intolerant as a “liberal” after all. Of course, that I’m aware of they don’t form the primary counterculture of entire swaths of states. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/72 "2003-07-08T15:26:16Z")
That’s only a slightly better “apology” (quotes because I don’t believe it for a fucking second) than “I apologize if anything I said might have offended someone who wasn’t intended to hear it; that wsa not my intent”. IE I’m not sorry I said it, I’m annoyed I got caught. ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/73 "2003-07-08T15:40:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\* Nowadays I agree that the far right is far more poisonous than the far left, but all y’all, left and right, still exalt ideology over the practical concerns of everyday people. \*\* Now wait a minute. For one thing, I really don’t think the far left or the far right embraces a consistent ideology. They each apply totally different standards to economic issues than they do to personal freedom issues. I’d say they’re _both_ authoritarian statists looking to use the power of government to force the people of this nation into being more like they want them to be, which seems downright arbitrary at times. And why should ideology take a backseat to “practical” concerns? Ideology is the underlying philosophy that should tie together your conclusions and actions, it makes things consistent and eliminates contradictions, it represents your knowledge of the universe as observed by your senses and developed by your power of reason. On any issue, one position will be right and the others will be wrong, and the goal is to discover which position is the right one. If we’re baking a cake for my mother, and I want to put in arsenic and you don’t, we don’t just “compromise” and put in a _little_ arsenic. To do so, you would be sacrificing truth and reality to meet my deadly ignorance in some nebulous “middle ground”. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/74 "2003-07-08T16:10:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aaslatten \* > \*\*I can’t believe his book did so well. I turn the display copies around every time I’m in the bookstore. \*\* Unless you own the place, you’re just being a petty asshole. Want to make a statement about him? Make a sign and go march around town. As it stands all you are doing is making more work for people who aren’t associated with him. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/75 "2003-07-08T16:34:55Z")
I remember finding a copy of “The Way Things Ought To Be” in the humor section. Giggle. ---
**Author:** ![aaslatten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@aaslatten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aaslatten)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/76 "2003-07-08T17:06:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mouthbreather \* > \*\*Unless you own the place, you’re just being a petty asshole. Damn straight … but it’s so much fun and it makes me feel good. (Anyway, I love how people think they’re making a stronger point by throwing in a bad word. “Asshole” back at you.) > [@](#): > > Want to make a statement about him? Make a sign and go march around town. Now that would just be silly. > [@](#): > > As it stands all you are doing is making more work for people who aren’t associated with him. \*\* And I apologize to those poor folks who must turn the books back around. It’s the price we all pay for my small effort to decrease his point-of-purchase book sales. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/77 "2003-07-08T17:15:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mouthbreather \* > you’re just being a petty asshole. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aaslatten \* > Damn straight Cool, as long as we agree. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/78 "2003-07-08T18:10:04Z")
Man, I really wish he hadn’t picked my City as a backdrop for his book cover. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aaslatten \* > \*\*And I apologize to those poor folks who must turn the books back around. It’s the price we all pay for my small effort to decrease his point-of-purchase book sales. \*\* Oh, shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/79 "2003-07-08T18:38:53Z")
Here’s more of Savage’s response (from the above link): > [@](#): > > Out of nowhere a crank caller from a competitive talk show went from describing his airline horror story to making vicious personal attacks against me. This doesn’t seem to jive. Even if there was a delay (which doesn’t make sense as it’s not a live show, AFAIK), you could still hear Savage’s remarks. He quite obviously cut off the caller when he said “Don and Mike,” and in NO WAY was “attacking” Savage. How the hell did he even guess the guy was gay because he referred to “Don and Mike?” The whole thing makes no sense. > [@](#): > > I signaled and thought that this crank caller was cut from the air. His insults continued in my ear piece and I reacted to him personally as an individual who was attacking me to defend myself. Oh, please. First, the “I didn’t know I was still on the air” bit is bullshit. Second, even if this was you “personally as an indivdiual” defending yourself, your comments were STILL way out of line. > [@](#): > > In no way did my comments reflect my views of disease and suffering in any way. I have spent my entire life in the field of alternative medicine trying to heal the world and bring comfort to the sick. What a bunch of horseshit. It didn’t reflect your views, but you said it anyway? How can you go from “I want to heal the world” to “get AIDS and die?” I’d call him a prick, but I like them too much. > [@](#): > > If my comments brought pain to anyone I certainly did not intend for this to happen and apologize for any such reaction. You apologize for my reaction to your comments? Christ, the guy doesn’t even know how to write for fuck’s sake. His books must be pure drivel. > [@](#): > > Let me repeat, this was an interchange between me personally and a mean spirited vicious setup caller which I thought was taking place off the air. So it’s ok because it wasn’t mean to be broadcast. Sorry that everyone knows how you really feel now (as if that wasn’t patently evident before). Who was the “mean spirited vicious” person in that exachange? You, you overblown jackass. > [@](#): > > I especially appeal to my many listeners in the gay community to accept my apologies for any inadvertent insults which may have occurred. “Many?” I defy you to find _one_. Fucker. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/80 "2003-07-08T19:47:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > Donahue was cancelled because no one watched his show. His ratings were in the absolute cellar, below everyone else on cable. Odd, then, that his was[the highest rated show](http://www.rense.com/general35/warwsig.htm) in the MSNBC nighttime lineup for the last six months – September 2002 to February 2003 – right before he got cancelled. Granted, Donahue wasn’t pulling in the numbers O’Reilley was pulling in, but considering that his was the _best-rated_ show in the MSNBC lineup, cancelling him makes no sense at all… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846.md?page=5)