# MSNBC's Savage Nation is no more! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 7, 2003, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846 "2003-07-07T20:22:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/81 "2003-07-08T20:01:43Z")
**rjung** , may I humbly suggest that a source which rants about the “Zionist/Jewish supremacists” (even calling Sean Hannity "their ‘educated’ goy) might not be the most reliable cite? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/82 "2003-07-08T20:58:37Z")
[hijack] Just thinking…wouldn’t it be hilariously ironic if it were discovered that Michael Savage and Dan Savage were related? Just imagine Thanksgiving dinner! ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/83 "2003-07-08T20:59:14Z")
**margin** : Oh, I’m not arguing that conservatives like the ones I read on that forum don’t exist, nor that they’re necessarily the majority, or whatever. It’s just that this was the first time I’d read about these, er, “people” in any sort of quasi-united front, and I wanted to get an idea from the other conservatives on this board just how common they felt this “gays are unstoppably and invariably promiscuous, will tear down traditional morality, choose to be this way, and oh, all the ones I know are really screwed up and self-loathing” thing is in their circles. IOW, whether they felt that this attitude held power, either socially or politically. Granted, I’m sure that this attitude is evident in people of all political spectrums, but the loudest tend to claim to be conservative. And seeing how the intelligent conservatives here have, at one time or another, had to defend themselves and distance themselves from this odious POV (much like Clarence Thomas seemed to be doing in _Lawrence_), I thought I’d get their impressions. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/84 "2003-07-08T21:45:45Z")
Hell, you know it’s bad when the majority of FREE REPUBLIC is saying that MSNBC did the right thing. And they aren’t exactly gay friendly, to put it mildly. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/85 "2003-07-08T21:52:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eva Luna \* > \*\*[hijack] > > Just thinking…wouldn’t it be hilariously ironic if it were discovered that Michael Savage and Dan Savage were related? Just imagine Thanksgiving dinner! \*\* Michael Savage’s real name is Michael Wiener. I wonder why he changed it. ---
**Author:** ![aaslatten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@aaslatten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aaslatten)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/86 "2003-07-08T22:23:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Troy McClure SF \* > \*\* > Oh, shut up. \*\* Too clever. ---
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/87 "2003-07-09T18:55:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > **Theres a winger radio station, calls itself [the Patriot](http://www.am1280thepatriot.com/) (no, I am not making this up)** An [article](http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/entertainment/6259952.htm) in today’s [Pioneer Press](http://www.twincities.com) (local paper) says that the Patriot has pulled Savage’s show “indefinitely”. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2003, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/88 "2003-07-09T19:13:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neidhart \* > \*\*I think he sold his soul to Satan. \*\* Satan gave it back, it made him feel dirty. In the bad way. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2003, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/89 "2003-07-09T19:25:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kal \* > \*\*Maybe the caller asked Savage out on a date. \*\* Maybe the caller turned Savage down for a date. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2003, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/90 "2003-07-09T19:32:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Like I said, a few silly socialists, not a cultural movement. \*\* Socialists are silly? ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2003, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/91 "2003-07-09T19:43:45Z")
Now the _San Francisco Chronicle_ has offered proof that the call was a set-up. However, it wasn’t quite the “setup” that Savage claims it was: > [@](#): > > Savage’s firing was precipitated by an active prankster calling his show. Bob Foster, 39, a Sacramento computer technician, says he’s been on CNN 25 times – including three times on Larry King’s show – and once convinced a Fox News host that he was witnessing an earthquake, when he was really making the whole thing up. Foster usually gives a plug to his favorite radio show, “Don and Mike,” which emanates from Washington, D.C. > > Foster called Savage’s show Saturday when Savage was doing what he described as a “schtick” about airline horror stories. Foster started a yarn about someone smoking in a plane’s bathroom, and then, in a non sequitur, said, > > " ‘Don and Mike’ should take over your show so you can go to a dentist appointment, because your teeth are really bad." > > Most of that comment was bleeped off the airwaves, but what Savage said was not. Instead, his rant will likely live in infamy… It was at this point Savage asked if he was a “Sodomite” and ranted about getting AIDS, swallowing sausage and getting trichanosis. 😕 Someone explain all that to me. Continuing: > [@](#): > > "My intention was not for him to get fired. My intention was to drop the ‘Don and Mike’ name,’ " Foster said. > > In fact, Foster is a fan of Savage’s show, and he picked him for one simple reason: “I look for a reaction.” ([Link to the _Chronicle_ article](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=c/a/2003/07/09/MN158024.DTL) and [link to Savage’s reprint](http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/savagesetup.html).) So, yeah, he was set up - by a harmless fan pulling a prank to advertise another show. Savage, however, wants to spin it as some kind of heinous Enemy Of Savage trying to bring him down. Regardless, he uses the above article as “proof” that he was set up. :rolleyes: Buh-bye, loser. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2003, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/92 "2003-07-09T19:51:22Z")
I think “but gee, I didn’t know I was on the air” may be the worst excuse I’ve ever heard. And MSNBC gets no credit for firing him- they shouldn’t have hired him in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2003, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/93 "2003-07-09T21:06:27Z")
Yeah, **Mojo**. It’s not even original – Reagan used it last. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/94 "2003-07-09T23:30:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*Odd, then, that his was[the highest rated show](http://www.rense.com/general35/warwsig.htm) in the MSNBC nighttime lineup for the last six months – September 2002 to February 2003 – right before he got cancelled. Granted, Donahue wasn’t pulling in the numbers O’Reilley was pulling in, but considering that his was the _best-rated_ show in the MSNBC lineup, cancelling him makes no sense at all… \*\* Just because it was the highest rated show doesn’t mean that it was their most profitable, or even profitable at all. Let’s say that, thanks to ratings, Donahue’s show makes $10,000 in advertising revenue per episode. The next most popular show on the network, let’s call it Show X, only makes $5,000 in advertising per episode. But it costs $12,000 per episode to make Donahue’s show, and only $4,000 to make Show X. Despite the high ratings, Donahue is costing the network $2,000 an ep, while Show X, with half the ratings, is still earning money for the network. So Donahue gets the ax because his ratings weren’t high enough to justify the expense, while Show X stays on the air. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/95 "2003-07-09T23:30:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > **rjung** , may I humbly suggest that a source which rants about the “Zionist/Jewish supremacists” (even calling Sean Hannity "their ‘educated’ goy) might not be the most reliable cite? If you can’t attack the message, attack the messenger, eh? How about [this bit](http://bcsd.freeservers.com/Miscel/libmedia/082902_critics_delight_in_donahu.htm) from the _Washington Times:_ > [@](#): > > The Drudge Report characterized him in “total collapse” with “the lowest Nielsen ratings possible,” while the New York Post figured he only drew “136,000 viewers nationwide,” in his August 23 broadcast, or the equivalent of two Yankee Stadiums full of people. > > Yet much depends on the translation of the numbers. > > According to MSNBC, their prime-time ratings had “double-digit growth” in August, compared with figures from a year ago. **Mr. Donahue’s 397,000 viewers were an 80 percent jump** from Brian Williams’ 202,000 last August. Or [the _Associated Press:_](http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/entertainment/5263274.htm) > [@](#): > > NEW YORK - Phil Donahue struck back at MSNBC on Wednesday for his firing, suggesting the network was too quick to pull the trigger and that it might be trying to “out-fox Fox” with conservative voices. > > Donahue’s political talk show, a distant third in the cable news ratings in his time slot, was abruptly pulled from the air after Monday’s show. The show premiered last July 15. > > The legendary talk show host noted that “Donahue’s” ratings were better than anything else in struggling MSNBC’s prime-time lineup. > > _(snip!)_ > > Meanwhile, the Web site [www.allyourtv.com](http://www.allyourtv.com) posted a commentary on Wednesday by Rick Ellis saying that he had been leaked an internal NBC study that described Donahue as “a tired, left-wing liberal out of touch with the current marketplace.” > > The report allegedly said Donahue presented a difficult face for NBC at a time of war, saying a nightmare scenario would be one in which his show becomes “a home for the liberal anti-war agenda at the same time our competitors are waving the flag at every opportunity.” Or maybe you’d prefer [this cite:](http://www.practicalradical.net/liberalmedia.html) > [@](#): > > While “Donahue” does badly trail both O’Reilly and CNN’s Connie Chung in the ratings, those numbers have improved in recent weeks. So much so that the program is the top-rated show on MSNBC, beating even the highly promoted “Hardball With Chris Matthews.” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2003, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/96 "2003-07-10T00:07:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > **If you can’t attack the message, attack the messenger, eh?** Why yes, if that messenger is going on about the “Zionist controlled major media” and is hosted on a site claiming that the US was complicit in 9/11, among other tinfoil hat rantings. Really, you should be ashamed for linking to that site. At any rate, as **Miller** astutely points out, you have no idea what MSNBC’s relative costs are for the various shows in its primetime lineup. I would add that different timeslots have different expectations, and that the 8pm slot held by Donahue is the most competitive slot and is thus expected to generate the highest ratings. If MSNBC canned Donahue because they didn’t like his politics, one has to wonder why they also canned Alan Keyes. The simple fact is, they didn’t. Donahue was brought in and paid handsomely to help MSNBC compete against other networks in that time slot, most notably against _The O’Reilly Factor_. Donahue failed to deliver, so they canned him. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2003, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/97 "2003-07-10T00:29:55Z")
Attack the fucking messenger? **rjung** , you’re not that stupid. Did you even LOOK at the site you linked to? > [@](#): > > But our nation is so financially enslaved that the top Zionist Jews are now able to arrange for 24 hour cheerleading for their war on Iraq - using American soldiers - and they are arranging this on ON ALL MAJOR MEDIA OUTLETS, both TV and Radio. This is a for-real, no bullshit pyschotic anti-jewish hate website. Take a look at some of the article links on his main page: “Did Polish Atrocities Incite Hitler’s Invasion Of Poland?” “Is Fox News Suppressing UFO Disclosure Efforts?” " ‘Jews Own Iraq’ Says London Jew, Other Jews Agree" “Feminism - Root Cause Of The Decline Of The West” " Myth Of Tiny, Little Israel - Zionist Tentacles Everywhere" " No Arabs On Flight 77" " Jewish Writers Say Zionists Drove US To War For Israel" Is that the kind of site you want to provide for evidence? Why exactly did you link to that particular site? Didn’t you realize that the guy who runs that site is a hate-filled anti-semitic nutcase? Sure, there may be other sites that back him up that Donahue had decent ratings. But why exactly would you claim that pointing out that your source was dubious at best and sociopathic at worst was “blaming the messenger?” Why not link to credible sites FIRST? You linked to a left-wing equivalent of Stromfront. You should at least have the decency to apologize for making that link instead of accusing Dewey of “blaming the messenger”. The messenger was a jew-hating psychopath. I wouldn’t believe him if he said the sky was blue. And all the time, the story was available from the Associated Press! You should be ashamed of yourself. ---
**Author:** ![BeatenMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@BeatenMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeatenMan)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2003, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/98 "2003-07-10T03:22:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skopo \* > \*\*I once watched 10 minutes of this asshole, and I thought he had to be a parody. He was fucking ridiculous. > > Good riddance to bad rubbish. \*\* I thought he was a parody with a gas can. He is Nothing but pure shock. Empty brain calories. No educational value. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2003, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/99 "2003-07-10T07:29:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lemur866 \* > This is a for-real, no bullshit pyschotic anti-jewish hate website. Take a look at some of the article links on his main page A thousand pardons, I was not aware that when I gave a cite, I was supposed to check _every other fucking page_ for \*\*Lemur-\*\*approved political correctness. > [@](#): > > Why exactly did you link to that particular site? Because it was the first one Google returned? > [@](#): > > Didn’t you realize that the guy who runs that site is a hate-filled anti-semitic nutcase? Why, no. I don’t keep up with the latest trends in hate sites, actually. But I guess that’s okay, since you apparently have enough free time to play watchdog. > [@](#): > > And all the time, the story was available from the Associated Press! In other words, “I don’t care if the news _was_ legit! I don’t like the page that the news was conveyed from, so I’m ignoring it all together!” …in other words, attacking the messenger, and not the message. Figures. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2003, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846/100 "2003-07-10T12:33:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*The far-right fringe is very bad, but then so is the far left (I’m looking at you, **Elucidator** … \*\* If you can back up any of that drivel, **Gobear** , dol so. Failing that, bite me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msnbcs-savage-nation-is-no-more/186846.md?page=6)