# mswas banning **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [February 3, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552 "2010-02-03T17:46:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/61 "2010-02-04T01:39:37Z")
Best ban ever, IMO. If you ask me, he had a history of painting a big red bullseye on his head and daring someone to take a swing… just trying to push people’s buttons so that he could then claim superiority in not being emotionally invested a thread that he’d dragged out a half dozen pages. It was inevitable that someday he’d get bored with the SDMB and start playing his tiresome reindeer games with the mods, knowing he’d get banned. And so it happened. And he’s probably reading this thread right now, chuckling up his sleeve at all the losers who are getting so worked up over his innocent little comment. His biggest crime was being so damned tedious… if you’re going to be a troll, stir up some colorful drama, don’t just sit there poking people and saying “I’m not touching you” for 10 friggin’ years. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/62 "2010-02-04T01:57:02Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > **Sam** , he had two one month suspensions already. And I don’t understand why he was such a good debater. Most of posts were just arrogant condescending jibes about how stupid we all were for failing to understand the lofty plane on which he dwelled. I’ve never seen a poster get away with insulting people as much as mswas did. Correct. The instant you started to get over him in a debate, he made it personal and declared that you clearly were unable to understand his brilliance and maybe you should just shut up. On a board of egomaniacal elitists, he stood out as one who thought he was clearly better than others. It infused every post he made. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/63 "2010-02-04T02:16:04Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I hope the mods consider a different model for dealing with posters who have long records of good behaviour interspersed with periods of outbursts. Cool 'em off, sure. Give **mswas** a one month suspension. If s/he comes back and steps out of line again, an instant one month suspension again. Continue as necessary. A banning should really be for an infraction extremely severe, such as physically threatening another member or attempting to hack someone’s account or repeatedly posting illegal material. This is not the current policy. This is worthy of debate, in my view. If we do that though, the mods would probably have to put a problematic poster under explicit probation, a category that would imply that the rules will be enforced more harshly against them, insofar as suspension is concerned. Otherwise members will notice and complain about uneven enforcement. Probation might last 6 months. There would be no need for a user label though: we don’t need to put “Under Probation” beneath the username. On balance, I would think that Sam’s proposal, even when tweaked, would add to the drama. But I might be wrong. It merits discussion. All that said, **mswas** was trolling for a banning today, so I have no objections to it, though I actually liked the perspective he brought to the board most of the time. Another tweak might be to hand out 2 month probations for repeat offenders. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/64 "2010-02-04T03:05:42Z")
I don’t agree with repeated (and, unless I misread, an infinite number of) suspensions. All that means is that a poster can cause grief for the general message board population, take a cool off, come back for a while and then cause grief again, take a cool off, ad infinitum. It also sets up a very clear distinction, codified, between old time posters and noobies, and that divide in moderation practices tends to rub me the wrong way as it is. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/65 "2010-02-04T03:43:52Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I don’t agree with repeated (and, unless I misread, an infinite number of) suspensions. All that means is that a poster can cause grief for the general message board population, take a cool off, come back for a while and then cause grief again, take a cool off, ad infinitum. It also sets up a very clear distinction, codified, between old time posters and noobies, and that divide in moderation practices tends to rub me the wrong way as it is. Isn’t this always suggested whenever a long time poster is banned for breaking the rules anyways? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/66 "2010-02-04T03:47:53Z")
And why shouldn’t there be such a distinction? Back in the day, if a new person moved into a community, there was little tolerance for bad behavior. The person is an unknown, and is not invested in the community in any way, so at the first sign that the person is not the kind you want hanging around, you’d run him out of town on a rail. On the other hand, if a person of good standing who has a long history of contribution to the community suddenly gets depressed or otherwise behaves abnormally, a lot more deference will be given, both because people know the person better and understand that this isn’t usual behavior, and in recognition that once you have roots in a community, it’s a much bigger deal to kick you out. Again, I’m not claiming that any specific poster did or didn’t deserve a banning. I do think that we are approaching a time when issues like this are becoming much more important. mswas had been here for _ten years_. Clearly the SDMB has been a big part of his life, and it’s not a trivial matter to take it away. As the internet becomes a place where we spend more and more of our time, issues like this have to be revisited. On a related issue, the actual content of the SDMB, while owned by the Reader, needs to be treated very carefully. A lot of us have thousands and thousands of posts on this board. It’s a pretty big record of who we were and how we changed over the years. Some day, my child or grandchildren might want to read it. If this board ever goes down for financial reasons or because people are just tired of running it, I would hope that the board content would be posted in the public domain or archived somewhere where we can still get at it, or at least an exported version be made available that we can keep for ourselves. It’s ultimately the Reader’s property to do with as they like, but good stewardship suggests that they keep the interests of the people here in mind when they choose what to do with the database if the board is retired. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/67 "2010-02-04T03:54:35Z")
If people value the alleged bonds they forged, they should do more to try to preserve them. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/68 "2010-02-04T03:59:11Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Again, I’m not claiming that any specific poster did or didn’t deserve a banning. I do think that we are approaching a time when issues like this are becoming much more important. mswas had been here for _ten years_. Clearly the SDMB has been a big part of his life, and it’s not a trivial matter to take it away. As the internet becomes a place where we spend more and more of our time, issues like this have to be revisited. Nobody took the SDMB away from mswas. He (or she) shoved the SDMB away with both hands, causing the SDMB to tumble into the 27th row of the stands, earning a double technical, a misconduct penalty, and a lifetime suspension as a bonus. You can try to spin this for as many posts as you care to invest, but all mswas had to do to stay was not post the thread proclaiming that she (or he) was giving the mods the double finger while screaming drunkenly “I double dog dare you to ban me.” mswas left deliberately and of its (or his or her) own volition. The mods merely made it official and spared the rest of us. They did the community a favor. They may very well have done mswas a favor. You are doing nobody any favors when you try to create an alternate universe in which none of this is true. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/69 "2010-02-04T04:12:29Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Y’all are good guys, but I’ve seen very little evidence of you guys disagreeing. It’s not like the Supreme Court or anything. So, in my mind, it comes across as a bunch of like-minded people all agreed on something. Is that supposed to mean something? I don’t know the internal machinations of the mods, but I do know that the usual rule with committees, company boards etc is that you show “cabinet solidarity”. If you have an internal disagreement, you work out that disagreement in private. To the public you present a united front. You do not, as a solitary or minority committee member come out and say “sure, the committee decision was x, but personally I thought y”. Doing so will destroy the credibility of the committee, and it will get you ejected from any committee I have ever heard of. In other words, what I would expect to know is only the outcome of mod decisions. Not reports of internal disagreement. So you can’t draw any inference from the lack of such reports to my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/70 "2010-02-04T04:41:44Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I don’t know the internal machinations of the mods, but I do know that the usual rule with committees, company boards etc is that you show “cabinet solidarity”. If you have an internal disagreement, you work out that disagreement in private. To the public you present a united front. You do not, as a solitary or minority committee member come out and say “sure, the committee decision was x, but personally I thought y”. Doing so will destroy the credibility of the committee, and it will get you ejected from any committee I have ever heard of. Which is an odd rationale, when you consider that the Supreme Court does this without any real problems. The dissenting opinions can be as important as the actual decision. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/71 "2010-02-04T04:59:49Z")
**mswas** was capable of having an intelligent debate and sometimes took an outsider viewpoint, yes. It’s not fun to have to kick somebody out when they have something to contribute. I’d rather we never had to make that call. But as far as repeat suspensions go- if we have to warn him every month or so and suspend him for a month every couple of months, what’s the point of having him post here at all? The SDMB may have occupied a significant portion of his time, but since he outright refused to change his behavior at all and was just baiting people at the end, I question how significant it was in his life. And I don’t think it matters much. He knew exactly what the problem was: almost all of his warnings were for insulting people. It’s not our problem he wouldn’t comply with the same rules as everyone else- it’s his. Even if you saw him as a great proponent for his views, at some point the disruption of having to caution and warn him over and over again outweighs the benefits. He might’ve enjoyed the board, but other people are allowed to enjoy the board and it’s only reasonable to go so far to accommodate him while inconveniencing them by excusing his insults and other problems. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/72 "2010-02-04T05:07:29Z")
**Exapno Mapcase** , as I said earlier, **mswas** and no one else has to bear the responsibility for this. I do think, however, that **Sam Stone** has a point. I don’t know what **mswas’s** problem is, but several people here have mood disorders or mental illnesses that don’t cause problems normally with posting. But sometimes a person may exhibit symptoms of depression with this very kind of hostile burnout. She or he may not even be aware of _why_ he is acting this way. It’s an illness, not a character flaw. And it comes and goes. As I said, I don’t know if that is **mswas’s** situation. Don’t misunderstand. I’m not advocating that this person not be banned. But I am agreeing with Sam Stone that the history of a person’s participation should be considered in determining whether or not that banning is permanent. > [@](#): > > **twickster** : He has been banned. If he were to come back, it would be as a sock, and that account would be banned as well. If you want to hang out with him, check the splinter boards. You must not be aware that “once banned, always banned” has not always been the rule. I have not in any way criticized his banning. Whether or not I want to “hang out with him” or participate in “splinter boards” is none of your business and totally inappropriate for you to suggest. Please consider the feelings of my family members who read here. For a mod, you certainly seem trigger happy. This forum is about THIS message board. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/73 "2010-02-04T05:14:24Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Whether or not I want to “hang out with him” or participate in “splinter boards” is none of your business and totally inappropriate for you to suggest. Please consider the feelings of my family members who read here. For a mod, you certainly seem trigger happy. I can’t tell if this is serious or tongue in cheek. The bit about the family suggests the latter, but the tone of the rest of the post suggests the former. If you are being serious, then I suggest taking a deep breath and a couple of anti-paranoia pills. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/74 "2010-02-04T05:15:03Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Whether or not I want to “hang out with him” or participate in “splinter boards” is none of your business and totally inappropriate for you to suggest. Please consider the feelings of my family members who read here. Ok, this one has me scratching my head. I not sure how anyone’s feelings would be affected in any way by the comment twickster made. It strikes me as a factual statement that **mswas** may or may not be posting at a splinter board and you (or anyone for that matter) who still wants to discuss things with him can do so elsewhere. _shrug_ ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/75 "2010-02-04T06:06:05Z")
> [@](#): > > **tacoloco** : I not sure how anyone’s feelings would be affected in any way by the comment twickster made. It strikes me as a factual statement that mswas may or may not be posting at a splinter board and you (or anyone for that matter) who still wants to discuss things with him can do so elsewhere. Single person, are ya? ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/76 "2010-02-04T09:05:15Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > …I don’t know what **mswas’s** problem is, but several people here have mood disorders or mental illnesses that don’t cause problems normally with posting. But sometimes a person may exhibit symptoms of depression with this very kind of hostile burnout. She or he may not even be aware of _why_ he is acting this way. It’s an illness, not a character flaw. And it comes and goes. As I said, I don’t know if that is **mswas’s** situation. > … Amongst all the verbiage about and from \*\*mswas \*\*in the past couple of days is a [link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=529654)to a post made by mswas just after he returned from a suspension where he apologised to all posters and staff for his behaviour, and attributed it to a mood swings. > [@](#): > > _I am subject to mood swings and one of the ways that I cope is by obsessively posting on internet message boards. I am sorry if you were in the firing line of that. If you see me on a tear though, it really isn’t very hard to just get out of my way. I am pretty aware of when I am on a tear like that and I don’t seek out people to single out I pick on the ones who come at me._ Just clarifying. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/77 "2010-02-04T10:45:33Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > I’ve never seen a poster get away with insulting people as much as mswas did. Then you’ve never seen [Collounsbury in Great Debates](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3533933&postcount=39) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/78 "2010-02-04T12:12:32Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > On the other hand, if a person of good standing who has a long history of contribution to the community suddenly gets depressed or otherwise behaves abnormally, a lot more deference will be given, both because people know the person better and understand that this isn’t usual behavior, and in recognition that once you have roots in a community, it’s a much bigger deal to kick you out. That wasn’t really the case here IMO. For the 5ish years I’ve been here off and on, the guy always seemed to be trying to be as much of a jerk as possible without running afoul of mod action. Sometime over the past year he lost that latter skill while retaining the former, with predictable results. One has to question whether baiting people for years on years really constitutes ‘good standing’. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/79 "2010-02-04T12:52:08Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Which is an odd rationale, when you consider that the Supreme Court does this without any real problems. The dissenting opinions can be as important as the actual decision. We’re not the Supreme Court, we’re volunteers on a free message board. We’re not about to start publishing majority opinions and a bunch of dissents. 😉 > [@Zoe](#): > > You must not be aware that “once banned, always banned” has not always been the rule. Of course **twickster** is aware of this. Before we went to the suspension system, you were either banned or not, and on rare occasions people were allowed back after apologies and vowing to do better. (For the most part, this did not work out; most previously banned posters who were allowed back resumed their previous behavior in short order and were banned again.) The suspension system essentially acts as to readmit posters who have been temporarily banned and allow them demonstrate they are capable of following the rules. Once you’re banned after a suspension, you’ve already been given a second chance and failed. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/80 "2010-02-04T12:59:52Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Which is an odd rationale, when you consider that the Supreme Court does this without any real problems. The dissenting opinions can be as important as the actual decision. I don’t think this is very relevant. Firstly, my point is just that the inference referred to in my final sentence can’t necessarily be drawn, rightly or wrongly. Secondly, courts are very different to executive bodies. Courts don’t have to implement their decisions. They have a national constitution behind them which means they don’t give a damn if they are viewed as non-cohesive: they are invulnerable. Their decisions will be implemented by force if necessary whether they are unanimous or bare majority. They can just pronounce and damn the consequences. This is not true of executive and political bodies that have to show a strong leadership, solidarity, direction etc [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552.md?page=5)