# mswas banning **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [February 3, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552 "2010-02-03T17:46:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/81 "2010-02-04T13:04:51Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > We’re not the Supreme Court, we’re volunteers on a free message board. We’re not about to start publishing majority opinions and a bunch of dissents. 😉 I would personally pay you $10,000.00 of GFactor’s money for you to publish notes, majority opinions, dissents and so forth. Frankly, rumor has it that Dex and FluidDruid swear like drunken sailors on leave in the ModPit. And that GFactor tells dirty jokes. Inquiring minds want to know! ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/82 "2010-02-04T13:37:29Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I hope the mods consider a different model for dealing with posters who have long records of good behaviour interspersed with periods of outbursts. Cool 'em off, sure. Give **mswas** a one month suspension. > … > But you also need to remember that for some people, the Straight Dope has been a tremendous investment of time and effort, and they have forged real bonds with other people here. In this particular case, it doesn’t seem like the poster considers his time to be a tremendous investment of time and effort, and/or that he has forged real bonds with other people here. Perhaps you didn’t see these posts: > [@A Pre-Emptive Goodbye](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pre-emptive-goodbye/527417/11): > > LOL, whatever. I really don’t care. > [@A Pre-Emptive Goodbye](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pre-emptive-goodbye/527417/14): > > I am not complaining about the fact that my time is limited. > [@A Pre-Emptive Goodbye](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pre-emptive-goodbye/527417/21): > > No really. The stakes are REALLY REALLY REALLY low. Meaning, as I recognize that my ‘give a shit threshold’ is low, that it’s inevitable. > [@A Pre-Emptive Goodbye](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pre-emptive-goodbye/527417/27): > > LOL. I think you missed the point of this thread. I know this concept is a very difficult one for people to grasp. I want to continue posting for as long as it is tenable to do so. If it becomes untenable I will shrug and probably be more productive. 😉 > [@A Pre-Emptive Goodbye](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pre-emptive-goodbye/527417/104): > > lol > [@A Pre-Emptive Goodbye](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pre-emptive-goodbye/527417/108): > > If I get banned from the board, I’ll be sad for about 15 minutes. Really, honestly. There are tons of other message boards on the internet. I know how to build one myself. It really doesn’t matter that much to me. I’m not saying I WANT to leave, but it’s not that big of a deal to me if I do. Sure, I go up and down, but believe me, getting permanently banned from the Straight Dope just won’t matter that much to me. > [@A Pre-Emptive Goodbye](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pre-emptive-goodbye/527417/109): > > LOL Hardly the words of a heartbroken man. The main conclusion I formed after reading his good-bye/kiss my tuckus thread was that we need a new rule to penalize overuse of the acronym LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/83 "2010-02-04T14:00:30Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I don’t think this is very relevant. No, not at all. Just an off-topic idle musing. ---
**Author:** ![ajb867](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@ajb867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ajb867)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/84 "2010-02-04T16:27:14Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > **mswas** was capable of having an intelligent debate and sometimes took an outsider viewpoint, yes. It’s not fun to have to kick somebody out when they have something to contribute. I’d rather we never had to make that call. But as far as repeat suspensions go- if we have to warn him every month or so and suspend him for a month every couple of months, what’s the point of having him post here at all? > > The SDMB may have occupied a significant portion of his time, but since he outright refused to change his behavior at all and was just baiting people at the end, I question how significant it was in his life. And I don’t think it matters much. He knew exactly what the problem was: almost all of his warnings were for insulting people. It’s not our problem he wouldn’t comply with the same rules as everyone else- it’s his. > Even if you saw him as a great proponent for his views, at some point the disruption of having to caution and warn him over and over again outweighs the benefits. He might’ve enjoyed the board, but other people are allowed to enjoy the board and it’s only reasonable to go so far to accommodate him while inconveniencing them by excusing his insults and other problems. Thank you Marley for that post. After giving it a day mswas did bring it on him self. I’ll still miss his / her contributions minus the insults he laid on others. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/85 "2010-02-04T19:17:54Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > I would personally pay you $10,000.00 of GFactor’s money for you to publish notes, majority opinions, dissents and so forth. > > Frankly, rumor has it that Dex and FluidDruid swear like drunken sailors on leave in the ModPit. > > And that GFactor tells dirty jokes. > > Inquiring minds want to know! No, but \*\*GFactor \*\*does like pterodactyl porn. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/86 "2010-02-04T19:20:16Z")
Shouldn’t that be ‘pterodactyl ptorn’? ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/87 "2010-02-04T22:13:06Z")
Regardless of how much **mswas** earned this banning, I do think that **magellan01** has a valid point. In that Debate about “Obvious Facts”, **Czarcasm** posts this (post69): > [@](#): > > > [@mswas](#): > > > > An ape cannot read Nietzche. Ape’s cannot read. > > They unlike you, _do_ have that excuse for not learning. That was **Czarcasm** ’s first post in that thread, it was way off topic, and it was a personal attack. I cannot characterize that in any other way than as taunting **mswas**. Furthermore, **Czarcasm** as a moderator does know better, and as a moderator knowing mswas was on thin ice, better should be expected from him. This strikes me as a deliberate attack to get **mswas** to respond. **mswas** responded with this: > [@](#): > > Except that I understand the arguments being put forth by everyone. So what do you base the idea of my lack of learning on? Polite direct address to the comment made. It was only after **Czarcasm** accuses mswas of “deliberate ignorance” that we get the exchange cited by **megellan01**. Frankly, this all smells bad to me. If I had been reading the thread at the time, I definitely would have reported **Czarcasm** for his innappropriate attack. Then there is this: **Marley23** said: > [@](#): > > It didn’t violate the rule. But yes, both of them were getting close, so I made a note in response. I did quote **mswas** and not **Czarcasm** , that’s true. I felt calling another poster ‘smug and superior’ was closer to the line than ‘I think that you avoid trying to find out the answers.’ But the note applied to everybody, which was made clear when I addressed the second part to everybody. That’s just bullshit. You called out mswas by name, but buried \*\*Czarcasm \*\*in “everybody”, even though **Czarcasm** is arguably the worse offender for his taunting. That’s just not right. How is “inferior understanding” more of an insult than “deliberate ignorance”? Furthermore, if you want to dispell the notion that the board operates with some sort of “blue shield hypocrisy”, you should be especially cautious when moderating an exchange involving a moderator. Evenhandedness is especially called-for to avoid the _appearance_ of bias, let alone actual bias. Here is an perfect example. Citing **Czarcasm** by name would have gone a long way to showing that moderators don’t get special treatment and have to obey the same rules, and that they will be called out when they violate the rules. Burying him in “everybody” looks like a coverup. Note that none of the posts above were **Czarcasm** acting as a moderator - they were all personal posts as a regular poster, and deserve to be treated as such. Is this the kind of fairness we can expect from the board administration? Finally, I will comment that the topic of that thread was _supposed_ to be about the obviousness of various things, not the truth. Despite how many times **mswas** stated as much, many people there were still intent upon arguing the _truth_. **Czarcasm** ’s posts certainly were all about the _truth_ rather than the _obviousness_. That is what **mswas** meant by the remarks about “comprehending what thread you are posting in”. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/88 "2010-02-05T00:41:51Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Is this the kind of fairness we can expect from the board administration? This is a rhetorical question, right? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/89 "2010-02-05T01:06:38Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Then you’ve never seen [Collounsbury in Great Debates](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3533933&postcount=39) 😃 The link points to a [Pit thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=3533933#post3533933). It was moved on the 3rd post. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/90 "2010-02-05T01:09:57Z")
A few of you still arguing in favor of **mswas** need to go back to read **Jack Batty’s** post 41 because you seem to have missed it. **mswas** may have been one of the outstanding posters of the year, but it’s very clear to anyone with the sense of sight and the ability to read what happened. He made a topic in here purposefully calling the mods out about the final warning when he already knew he was on thin ice and that the next one was his banning. He even had advice from many posters in said thread telling him to take a break, to stop, to walk away, to take a breather, that he was going to be banned. He refused to listen and kept on his kamakazie mission of suicide by mod, not only continuing to post in here his cross-bearing spiel but taking it into another thread in GD and then, on top of all of that, making yet another thread in here claiming the mods are double teaming him. It’s very simple. He made up his mind already to be banned. He was already convinced he wasn’t going to be staying. So like post 41 said…if anyone still thinks **mswas** had anything other than “well, going to get banned anyway so GET BANNED FROM THE SDMB TODAY” on his “To Do” list, then you’re not the most insightful person in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/91 "2010-02-05T01:24:55Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Furthermore, **Czarcasm** as a moderator does know better, and as a moderator knowing mswas was on thin ice, better should be expected from him. This strikes me as a deliberate attack to get **mswas** to respond. :rolleyes: **Czarcasm** ’s comments were marginally personal, which is why they were moderated along with **mswas** ’s. But it’s a thread about knowledge- what’s obvious and what’s knowable. So comments about ignorance are personal but they’re not completely off topic. > [@](#): > > That’s just bullshit. I don’t agree. And I didn’t just single out **mswas** because his comments were ‘worse.’ I directed him to ATMB because he was making comments about modding (“You of course will not be warned because you are a mod, and as such can do whatever you want.”) before I entered the thread. He had a habit of making everything into an argument about moderating. > [@](#): > > How is “inferior understanding” more of an insult than “deliberate ignorance”? I was emphasizing “you feel smug and superior,” not "inferior understanding. But in any case, see above: comments from both posters were modded. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, if you want to dispell the notion that the board operates with some sort of “blue shield hypocrisy” I want to be fair and evenhanded, but I was not responding to dispel charges of blue shield hypocrisy. **mswas** trotted out crap like that whenever he disagreed with a moderator warning - which was almost always, no matter how blatantly he insulted someone. > [@](#): > > Citing **Czarcasm** by name would have gone a long way to showing that moderators don’t get special treatment and have to obey the same rules, and that they will be called out when they violate the rules. I think you’re reading too much into my mentioning of **mswas** ’s name. I made it clear my note didn’t only apply to him. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/92 "2010-02-05T01:36:37Z")
It’d streamline things a lot to just ban anyone making whiny posts in support of people banned for longstanding, blatant violations of the rules. If they defend such behavior they don’t belong either. mswas should have been banned months ago. He contributed nothing of value to any thread he posted to. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/93 "2010-02-05T01:48:32Z")
I wonder why people really want an ‘interesting’ bully around? Is that what we want to shoot for here? Add to the ignorance as long as it isn’t boring? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/94 "2010-02-05T01:57:30Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > I wonder why people really want an ‘interesting’ bully around? Is that what we want to shoot for here? Add to the ignorance as long as it isn’t boring? That’s what some posters want. They post that they only come here for the Pit. It’s just human nature that some small percentage(5-10%?) of the posters are here for the thrill of trainwrecks. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/95 "2010-02-05T03:19:42Z")
In reflection I’ll say this, **Irishman** (and others): it would have been clearer if I’d said “ **mswas** , if you have questions about the rules or moderating, take them to ATMB. Everyone else is also advised to make sure this argument does not become personal and don’t call people names.” ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/96 "2010-02-05T06:01:26Z")
**NineToTheSky** , thanks for reposting the link to **mswas’s** previous apology and his explanation about his mood swings. People with mood disorders are rarely the best loved folks on the block. Few people have the patience to put up with the inevitable tantrums. > [@](#): > > **Arnold** : In this particular case, it doesn’t seem like the poster considers his time to be a tremendous investment of time and effort, and/or that he has forged real bonds with other people here. But that’s just for now. In a month or so, he may really regret what he has done. He has before. **Czarcasm** , I didn’t realize that the “once banned, always banned” policy had been finally carved in stone here with absolutely no exceptions ever, ever. Few SDMB decisions are. Since I am not advocating such an action in this particular case, I think any mod comments – directed at me about **mswas** having only the option of returning as a sock were unwarranted. When that was followed with unsolicited advice about where I could “hang out” with this particular ex-Doper, I began to wonder if **twickster** had returned to her old ways. I had rather that she not make this personal. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/97 "2010-02-05T06:19:31Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > But that’s just for now. In a month or so, he may really regret what he has done. He has before. And then a month after that, when he starts melting down again? That’s a pretty thankless job you want to task the mods with, worthy of Sisyphus. Me, I won’t miss him, at all. He had some nice insights on music and stuff, but in GD and the Pit? Not so much. He asked for this, he was often abusive, and he added nothing of value to the board that balanced out the abusiveness. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/98 "2010-02-05T07:07:41Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Is that not a rule or has it changed? My definition of “rule” is that it has to be in the rules thread at the top of the forums. I always assume that any rule not placed up there is no longer in effect. If the rule isn’t in the designated place for rules, how could you expect anyone to know to follow it? > [@Princhester](#): > > In other words, what I would expect to know is only the outcome of mod decisions. Not reports of internal disagreement. So you can’t draw any inference from the lack of such reports to my mind. My explanation was supposed to mean something more along the lines of: if they would let us know that some of them often disagree in certain ways, then I think the comment “We all discussed it and agreed” would carry more weight. As it is, it is somewhat ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/99 "2010-02-05T07:17:27Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > **Czarcasm** , I didn’t realize that the “once banned, always banned” policy had been finally carved in stone here with absolutely no exceptions ever, ever. Few SDMB decisions are. When did I say this? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552/100 "2010-02-05T13:07:08Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > But that’s just for now. In a month or so, he may really regret what he has done. He has before. You know what they say: “you should have thought of that before.” While **mswas** appeared to have mood swings and had trouble walking away from arguments (mostly with mods), this was not a one time thing at all. We try to recognize when someone is going through a rough period and we’ll try to advise them about it. But they have to work with us for that to help, and **mswas** ’s response to his last warning was “I am not going to make a special effort not to step on over-sensitive people’s toes.” He had six warnings in five months last year and something like 15 altogether over the last five years. So it wasn’t like things started going bad recently and he wouldn’t make an effort to change what was happening. There’s not a lot we can do for posters in that situation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-banning/527552.md?page=6)