# mswas one month too much? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 29, 2009, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141 "2009-08-29T07:05:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ajb867](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@ajb867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ajb867)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141/21 "2009-08-29T14:27:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Liberal View Post > The charge of trolling — there could not be a more subjective charge > [@](#): > > No, actually he admitted that his purpose was to piss people off. What about people who don’t admit it, like Carol Stream? This is why it is subjective to call someone a troll. I find her/him intolerable but I know some people don’t share my opinion. Finn your response to Liberal could be interpreted by some as “trolling”. I would just call it a difference of opinion though. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141/22 "2009-08-29T14:31:45Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Maybe in general, you are right. But if I open a thread in MPSIMS in remembrance of Mary Jo Kopechne — and there are no outstanding warnings against me, of which I am aware, or which appear on my user profile — will it be closed? And if so, why? I think there’s a bit more context to be taken into account here. On its own, and from my cursory reading, that thread closing does appear a bit debatable, but at that point **mswas** had been well into his 100-posts-per-day spree in the course of which he ruffled more than a few feathers, including those of the mod in question, his pitting was well under way, etc. Ideally, of course, one would expect the moderation to stay impartial, but I don’t know that I could have. There were certainly grounds on which to suspect a bit of ‘jerkishness’ behind his posting, though I wouldn’t want to have to make that call. And also, as far as I know, the warning tied to the thread closing was later retracted, which does seem to be a bit of an admission to a somewhat over-the-top reaction. So, even if that thread closing might not have been exactly right, I find it hard to really blame anyone. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141/23 "2009-08-29T14:33:03Z")
> [@ajb867](#): > > Finn your response to Liberal could be interpreted by some as “trolling”. I would just call it a difference of opinion though. Why? Though snarky and condescending (well done!), it’s obvious if you know **FinnAgain** that he believes every word he said. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141/24 "2009-08-29T14:35:14Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > You still taking clonazepam too? I used to take it regularly as a sleep aid. But my sleeping disorders have disappeared. So now I take it with the onset of panic attacks (which in my case bear resemblances to symptoms of heart attacks). Generally, panic attacks are brought on when I encounter contradictions. On rare occasions, I take it when I anticipate a panic attack, such as when we host friends and there is a house full of kids, some of whom play in the parlor until and unless I shoo them away. Too many extremely costly items in there. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141/25 "2009-08-29T14:38:55Z")
> [@5-4-Fighting](#): > > Why? Though snarky and condescending (well done!), it’s obvious if you know **FinnAgain** that he believes every word he said. So maybe people who knew mswas felt the same way about him. FinnAgain’s response to me above was dismissive, chock full of snark, and frankly addressed not a single point that I had made. Trolling is often in the eye of the beholder. I cannot discern a single line of FinnAgain’s post that was not designed to rile me up. Which failed, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141/26 "2009-08-29T14:38:55Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > It’s bullshit. Pure unadulterated bullshit. Correct. > [@](#): > > I know that mswas went over the top. I tried to stop him, and he wouldn’t listen to me. I wanted him to shut up — not because he did not have a legitimate grievance, indeed he did — but simply because I knew that this would be the end result. Right. The two places to assign blame are [ol][li]the Usual Suspects, for baiting **mswas** , and [\*] **mswas** , for allowing himself to be baited. [/ol][/li] > [@](#): > > It is a travesty. It reflects extremely poorly on our moderation and on our membership. Yes. And it’s not gonna change. > [@](#): > > We make it next to impossible for conservatives to post here unless they carefully toe the line, writing tortured prose that won’t offend too many of the boards authoritarians, while people who call themselves “liberals” — daming the very term, as far as I am concerned — are allowed to flame and lampoon any group their heart desires, from people who oppose gay marriage (including gays who oppose gay marriage) to leaders of Christian churches and publishers of Christian pamphlets and hand-outs. Or else, conservatives can post whatever they feel like, and not give a rap if it offends the Usual Suspects, and not fall for their bullshit. Then you can survive for eight years and 13K+ posts. 😃 It’s just something one needs to accept about the SDMB. There are two standards - one for those who haven’t drunk the Flavor-Aid, and another for everyone else. There is a lot of overlap between the two standards, but the distinction is real. The other thing to accept is that the above will be denied to the death. **mswas** apparently didn’t accept this - he expected consistency in the standard, with the result we see. Maybe he will be better after his suspension - I hope so. Yes, of course it is screamingly obvious that the treatment of Kennedy’s death vs. the treatment of the deaths of Tony Snow and Falwell and Thurmond and Helms is hypocritical. But that isn’t going to change. So you have to laugh at it, and derive your satisfaction from seeing it rather than from having them admit it. Because they never will You seem to be doing a lot better at it now, **Lib**. I hope sincerely that the inevitable attacks on you that will ensue give you opportunity to practice. Because you know as well as I that there will be the usual “ **Lib** is making this all about himself” crap. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141/27 "2009-08-29T14:44:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You seem to be doing a lot better at it now, **Lib**. I hope sincerely that the inevitable attacks on you that will ensue give you opportunity to practice. Because you know as well as I that there will be the usual “ **Lib** is making this all about himself” crap. Yep. Already anticipated. The attacks simply don’t bother me anymore. I can take it without blowing a gasket. Thanks, by the way, for noticing the changes in me. Quite a few others have as well. Especially my wife. 😉 All it took was finding the right physician. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141/28 "2009-08-29T15:09:24Z")
pissing people off has been **mswas** ’s primary purpose for some time. When trying to engage him/her in constructive discussion, his typical pattern was to assume that you were too stupid to understand his vast intellect, and then insult you in GD. When called on it, he made a grudging apology (along the lines of “I’m sorry you’re so stupid”. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141/29 "2009-08-29T15:20:22Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Maybe in general, you are right. But if I open a thread in MPSIMS in remembrance of Mary Jo Kopechne — and there are no outstanding warnings against me, of which I am aware, or which appear on my user profile — will it be closed? And if so, why? If you will notice, [there is a perfectly appropriate discussion of Ted Kennedy, Mary Jo Kopechne, and the press adulation of the Kennedy clan going on in The Cafe Society](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=529891). Fortunately, it has not yet been visited by **mswas** or any of the usual suspects that turn such a discussion into something tawdry and ugly. So the subject is not off limits. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141/30 "2009-08-29T15:23:53Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > If you will notice, [there is a perfectly appropriate discussion of Ted Kennedy, Mary Jo Kopechne, and the press adulation of the Kennedy clan going on in The Cafe Society](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=529891). Fortunately, it has not yet been visited by **mswas** or any of the usual suspects that turn such a discussion into something tawdry and ugly. So the subject is not off limits. That’s a thread about a cartoon. It is not a thread mourning the drowning death of Mary Jo Kopechne. And you’re wrong. Mswas [did indeed participate](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11497626&postcount=7). ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141/31 "2009-08-29T15:29:03Z")
Diagnosis: Suicide by mod. This always leads to a suspension or banning. Why is anybody bothering to comment? When mswas comes back he will get himself banned. People will comment then as well, but I won’t understand why. ETA: I looked at the recent threads and I note that mswas went out of his way to proclaim himself a liberal, a Democrat, and an Obama voter. Accusing the Board of special enmity against conservatives in his case is the opposite of the truth. Does that make the accusers liars? If only we had someone knowledgeable in philosophy to help settle this conundrum. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141/32 "2009-08-29T15:36:31Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > ETA: I looked at the recent threads and I note that mswas went out of his way to proclaim himself a liberal, a Democrat, and an Obama voter. Accusing the Board of special enmity against conservatives in his case is the opposite of the truth. Does that make the accusers liars? If only we had someone knowledgeable in philosophy to help settle this conundrum. I am not all that knowledgeable in philosophy, but I know the boards. **mswas** [ul][li]failed to toe the line 100% on gay marriage and on Kennedy, and [\*]showed he could be baited.[/ul] You don’t have to be conservative. [/li] The hive mind does not tolerate dissent. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141/33 "2009-08-29T16:05:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I am not all that knowledgeable in philosophy, but I know the boards. > > **mswas** [ul][li]failed to toe the line 100% on gay marriage and on Kennedy, and [\*]showed he could be baited.[/ul] You don’t have to be conservative. [/li] > The hive mind does not tolerate dissent. > > Regards, > Shodan Precisely. There is some good news in this for mswas, though. Her goal was to have people remember Mary Jo. She did that. Ironically, and sweetly, she succeeded in tying the memory of Mary Jo around the neck of Kennedy by harnessing the stupidity and partisanship of some people wishing to deify the man and sweep her under the rug. The result is that on these boards, through her participation and that of her detractors and enemies, Kennedy is now more tied to the memory of Mary Jo and his low, despicable behavior that night than he ever was. Well done, mswas. And while I think the suspension was merited, due to more than one flagrant rule violation, I do think it was too strong. A week seems more appropriate, given the circumstances. (By the way, I created a Pit thread about this with a long OP and it was eaten by the board upon hitting submit.) ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141/34 "2009-08-29T16:06:05Z")
**Shodan** , doesn’t that big cross get heavy to lug around all the time? Or do you just climb up it and stay? You poor put-upon conservatives… **mswas** was omnipresent and omni-obnoxious over the past couple of weeks. He’d just about driven me off the boards entirely. I hope the month will let him get his head together and settle down. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141/35 "2009-08-29T16:11:04Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The hive mind does not tolerate dissent. You don’t need to posit a ‘hive mind’ or flavor-aid drinkers. And that’s _the point_. It’s a message board, and certain ideas are more common than others. It may be, and certainly often is frustrating to deal with certain people, but this isn’t really any different than anywhere else. If the vast majority of the posters here thought that Kennedy was a vile, evil bastard, then talking about him in good terms would be against the ‘hive mind’. Of course disagreeing with a commonly held position among a group will yield a number of people disagreeing with you. We can debate the merits of certain commonly held beliefs, but simply pointing out that the beliefs are commonly held does not, in and of itself, show anything but their frequency. > [@Shodan](#): > > The two places to assign blame are [ol][li]the Usual Suspects, for baiting **mswas** , and [\*] **mswas** , for allowing himself to be baited. [/ol][/li] Well, the list should at the very least be reversed. An adult should probably log off and go garden before suiciding-via-mod, or at least take the initiative to just stop visiting a website before forcing the issue of one’s forcible removal. And even if people were “baiting” him (which I may have missed since I had no interest in the Kennedy threads) then, meh. I mean, fuck, how many times have you seen me arguing in a thread with people who weren’t exactly debating by the rules according to Hoyle, and how many times have I courted a banning over it rather than taking it to the Pit or choosing the terms of the engagement appropriate to the forum I was in at the time? If I did start flaming people in GD, even if they provided just cause for me to be really, really mad, it’d still be 100% my fault. “He made me do it!” is a particularly undignified excuse. And no, come on. This is not a travesty. This is not a horrible thing. This is not anything that really _matters_. This is little Bobby and Petey kicking Jimmy out of the tree house because he didn’t agree that girls are icky. I mean, this is an online message board. A free online message board. Even if everybody here was a raving asshole it wouldn’t make any real difference and any effects could be negated by _not opening the web page_. Is it too bad that the Dope doesn’t work differently? Sure. Is it a ‘tragedy’? Only if a splinter is a medical emergency. We should, at least, keep a sense of perspective. While some people who post here may be schmucks, this is still just a glorified AIM chat room, nifty as it is. I know, as well as anybody, that it’s easy to get your blood hot and let some silly argument with a cloud of electrons totally get under your skin. I also know, as well as anybody, that those times are exactly when you know it’s time to log off and go take a walk. > [@Shodan](#): > > Or else, conservatives can post whatever they feel like, and not give a rap if it offends the Usual Suspects, and not fall for their bullshit. But _that’s the point_. We should expect that any adult can post their views, defend them, follow the rules of a club they join and if they don’t like the club, leave. Some of us _like_ the challenge of posting and defending our views. In any case, if someone doesn’t have a thick skin and the ability to argue for their convictions no matter what the odds are against them, then obviously a message board based on snark and argument is probably not the ideal place. > [@ajb867](#): > > Finn your response to Liberal could be interpreted by some as “trolling”. Yes, and some would interpret tea leaves as an indicator of luck in romance. > [@Liberal](#): > > FinnAgain’s response to me above was dismissive, chock full of snark, and frankly addressed not a single point that I had made. Snarky and dismissive? Dude, you compared the Dope to StormFuckingFront. After that likening gentle mockery to trolling because I’m out to get you is… weird. You dismissed a great many Dopers as, essentially, Neo-Nazis, and now you’re complaining about some light mockery of your hyperbolic post. I believe that the phrase is “take the beam out of your eye.” Or “if you can’t take it, don’t dish it out”. It’s more than a little silly of you to liken Dopers to Neo-Nazis and white supremacists and then get all flustered and accuse someone of trolling for taking the piss out of you. And if you want to claim that I didn’t address any of your points, that’s your call. > [@Liberal](#): > > I cannot discern a single line of FinnAgain’s post that was not designed to rile me up. Which failed, by the way. Curses, foiled again! You are on to my dastardly plan. Rather than pointing out that your argument was absurd, I was really trying to make you… \*\*freak out!!! \*\* Or to translate: Instead of imagining me trying to rile you up, try to look at my post as _mocking some of the things you said._ And instead of believing that you deserve a snark free response that isn’t dismissive of your claims, ask yourself if the tone you took has earned you the right to demand such treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141/36 "2009-08-29T16:12:24Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Generally, panic attacks are brought on when I encounter contradictions. No they aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141/37 "2009-08-29T16:23:26Z")
**magellan01** , **mswas** is male. (just FYI.) ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141/38 "2009-08-29T16:26:35Z")
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Whenever anyone with the slightest conservitave leanings is punished, the Usual Suspects are in here, complaining, ‘Oh, hive mind! Evil mods! You hate us!’. You conservatives are all the same. See! I can do ridiculous stereotyping without regards to circumstance too! And it doesn’t make any more sense than when you do it. Anyway, I’m glad this happened. Hopefully, mswas can calm down and straighten out whatever he needs to straighten out while he’s away. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141/39 "2009-08-29T16:27:18Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > pissing people off has been **mswas** ’s primary purpose for some time. When trying to engage him/her in constructive discussion, his typical pattern was to assume that you were too stupid to understand his vast intellect, and then insult you in GD. When called on it, he made a grudging apology (along the lines of “I’m sorry you’re so stupid”. Oh really? Read many of his posts when we have been discussing eve online and related logistics/finance? He has been more than willing to admit he doesn’t understand many facets about the bare bones of how something in EVE works, even though he has been able to profit by it … ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141/40 "2009-08-29T16:35:07Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > And that’s _the point_. It’s a message board, and certain ideas are more common than others. It may be, and certainly often is frustrating to deal with certain people, but this isn’t really any different than anywhere else. No doubt. However, this is a board advertising itself as the Straight Dope, the absolute truth without fear or bias. Then shit like this happens, and it gets a little harder to take that at face value. > [@](#): > > Well, the list should at the very least be reversed. I would assign the blame at roughly 50-50, and thus the order doesn’t matter. > [@](#): > > I mean, fuck, how many times have you seen me arguing in a thread with people who weren’t exactly debating by the rules according to Hoyle, and how many times have I courted a banning over it rather than taking it to the Pit or choosing the terms of the engagement appropriate to the forum I was in at the time? No doubt. And I am sure we can agree that this - > [@](#): > > We should expect that any adult can post their views, defend them, follow the rules of a club they join and if they don’t like the club, leave. is also true. OTOH, I am also relatively sure we would agree that these rules are not always even-handedly enforced. And those instances of bias are not randomly distributed, IME. > [@](#): > > Some of us _like_ the challenge of posting and defending our views. > In any case, if someone doesn’t have a thick skin and the ability to argue for their convictions no matter what the odds are against them, then obviously a message board based on snark and argument is probably not the ideal place. Sure - as long as one keeps in mind that it appears that posters with certain sets of convictions need to develop a hide that is considerably thicker than those on the other side. Is that fair? No. Is it going to change anytime soon? No, of course not. This board slants pretty heavily Left. This is reflected in a large majority of the more active posters. It is also reflected in the moderation. **mswas** couldn’t accept that. I’ve gotten upset over it myself. Usually I snicker to myself over the more egregious examples and move on. Hopefully **mswas** will be able to do the same better once he returns. But the baiting and accusations of trolling and deliberate misinterpretations and determined attempts to hijack everything away from a direction that is trending against the self-appointed Champions of Truth, Beauty and Health Care for All are not going to stop. No reason they should. If I weren’t out numbered twenty to one and with the bias of some of the moderation against me, it wouldn’t be as much fun when I win. Cue the usual screams of “when have you ever won an argument? Get off the cross! You’re a troll!!CITECITECITE!!!BUSHLIEDABOUTIRAQ!!” Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mswas-one-month-too-much/508141.md?page=3)