# Mt. Everest summit human traffic jam **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 26, 2019, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547 "2019-05-26T11:55:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547/21 "2019-05-27T18:01:27Z")
Making it easy and safe kinda undermines the point of going. It’s supposed to be difficult and dangerous, so that you summon up courage and endurance to complete it, like most dangerous sports. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547/22 "2019-05-27T18:03:02Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > How are you going to get these heavy, unwieldy materials up the 29000’ mountain? Staging. Obviously this is a straightforward logistics problem if the funds are there. I mean you start out by airlifting in materials to improve the runway. Then you airlift in many tons of supplies. Then you work on building a road or tramway to base camp. Then you start to build the cableway up the mountain. Obviously you can do this kind of thing in stages, such as having initial climbers bring very light and thin ropes or steel wires, and anchor them with hand tools to anchor rocks up the mountain, with a pulley system. Then you use those to bring up heavier tools including explosive driven anchor systems. Then you use a heavy cable system to start bringing up small containers of supplies and so on. Maybe the cost of this would be more than the revenue brought in by all these climbers. If so, fair enough, people die on Everest because we can’t afford to do it better. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547/23 "2019-05-27T18:09:12Z")
> [@Royal\_Nonesutch](#): > > Maybe you can make American welfare mothers and freeloading immigrant food-stamp fraudsters carry them up in order to qualify for their monthly benefits? > > ( **Moderator Warning** **Royal Nonesutch** , this appears to be both a political jab and a personal attack, neither of which are permitted in General Questions. This is an official warning. Do not do this again. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547/24 "2019-05-27T18:10:16Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Nepal should double the price! Get half the people, same income! Make the inexperienced take courses…IN NEPAL ! > > Keeping it expensive has saved Bhutan from over tourism, and while I’m a budget traveller and this goes against my own interests, it’d be worth it to keep such places from being over touristed. > > Just keep jacking the price till you get down to manageable numbers. Actually, I love the idea. It also makes a bucket list more precious to the person if they have to do what people did back in the day and actually have to save up for 5 or more years to go to a single overseas location. I have said a number of times that a visit to Cuba was on my lifetime bucket list - I would have either had to do a military transport to Gitmo based on my military access, or get smuggled in [I had a guy I was visiting in Germany want to take me on a E400 long weekend to a resort in Cuba because it was yucky the month I was visiting, and I had to explain that just having the Cuban visa turn up on my passport would seriously fuck me up, my security clearances up and screw up mrAru’s military career …] but now the access has been eased for basic tourism, we decided if I survived my cancer we would push it up timewise and do a cruise to the Caribbean that focuses on a day and night in Havana as the cost has actually dropped to something we can actually afford. Back when I was young and healthy, I did a moderate amount of climbing, but I would have NEVER considered Everest, and even if they did install cables and hard checkpoints and suchlike as described above, I would still have never considered it. I may have been an adrenaline junkie, but I was not stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547/25 "2019-05-27T18:17:12Z")
I’m the kind of guy who would see that big traffic jam and say, 'Fuck it. Close enough." and turn around and head back to camp for a beer. I roll like that. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547/26 "2019-05-27T18:27:33Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > How are you going to get these heavy, unwieldy materials up the 29000’ mountain? Billions of tiny robots. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547/27 "2019-05-27T19:09:29Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Billions of tiny robots. Flood the earth for 39 days and ark everything in? ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547/28 "2019-05-27T19:55:25Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Billions of tiny robots. Or cables and winches? Don’t be a dick. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547/29 "2019-05-27T20:02:47Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > Or cables and winches? Don’t be a dick. You don’t understand the logistics or conditions up there. Those suggestions are not workable. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547/30 "2019-05-27T20:05:27Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > Or cables and winches? Don’t be a dick. **Moderator Warning** **SamuelA** , insults are not permitted in GQ. This is an official warning. Don’t do this again. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547/31 "2019-05-27T20:11:29Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > **Moderator Warning** > > **SamuelA** , insults are not permitted in GQ. This is an official warning. Don’t do this again. You meant to infract Darren, right? He’s the one who said my straightforward plan, using methods that have been used for at least a century when constructing infrastructure in hard to reach locations (staging, using safety equipment to make hazardous conditions like high altitudes and falls safe), must involve futuristic nanoscale robotics rather than existing methods. “Don’t be a dick” isn’t even an insult… ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547/32 "2019-05-27T20:42:27Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > …we decided if I survived my cancer we would push it up timewise and do a cruise to the Caribbean that focuses on a day and night in Havana as the cost has actually dropped to something we can actually afford. My parents just did this cruise in February and had a nice time. I hope you are able to do it. Putting in an infrastructure, even if it were possible, would take away the fundamental reason people climb Everest, which is to challenge themselves to do an incredibly difficult task. If it became easy, focus would shift to K2, Annapurna, or another more challenging mountain. Also, even with oxygen available, there’s no way to eliminate the effects of the altitude, which has always been a major killer. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547/33 "2019-05-27T20:52:28Z")
[Moderating] > [@SamuelA](#): > > You meant to infract Darren, right? Nope, not for some mild ribbing. > [@](#): > > “Don’t be a dick” isn’t even an insult… In normal English, it indicates the person you were addressing was being a dick. If you have further interesting theories on whether or not it is an insult or other complaints about moderation, take it to ATMB. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547/34 "2019-05-27T21:28:05Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > Staging. Obviously this is a straightforward logistics problem if the funds are there. > > I mean you start out by airlifting in materials to improve the runway. Then you airlift in many tons of supplies. Then you work on building a road or tramway to base camp. Then you start to build the cableway up the mountain. > > Obviously you can do this kind of thing in stages, such as having initial climbers bring very light and thin ropes or steel wires, and anchor them with hand tools to anchor rocks up the mountain, with a pulley system. Then you use those to bring up heavier tools including explosive driven anchor systems. Then you use a heavy cable system to start bringing up small containers of supplies and so on. > > Maybe the cost of this would be more than the revenue brought in by all these climbers. If so, fair enough, people die on Everest because we can’t afford to do it better. The air strip at Lukla is built on a tiny shelf on the side of a mountain. There is absolutely no room to significantly enlarge and lengthen the runway area to allow larger planes to land. The current 12 % gradient is the result of many, many months of hard manual labor to get it to that point. The natural gradient was much steeper. Any one who has actually hiked the forty miles between Lukla and EBC would agree that a road or even a tramway would be next to impossible to build and cost millions of dollars to begin before the idea was abandoned. You just can not get the large scale equipment necessary up there. Even if the proposed project was at sea level and accessible by truck, the idea of building a road through the narrow mountain passes up to Everest would be daunting, but from an elevation over 9000 ’ to an elevation of 18000’ it would be almost impossible. And what would be the reason for spending these millions and millions of dollars? So some rich dudes don’t die while they check off their latest bucket list conquest? How about if they just stay home? ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547/35 "2019-05-27T21:55:28Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > Any one who has actually hiked the forty miles between Lukla and EBC would agree that a road or even a tramway would be next to impossible to build and cost millions of dollars to begin before the idea was abandoned. You just can not get the large scale equipment necessary up there. Even if the proposed project was at sea level and accessible by truck, the idea of building a road through the narrow mountain passes up to Everest would be daunting, but from an elevation over 9000 ’ to an elevation of 18000’ it would be almost impossible. And what would be the reason for spending these millions and millions of dollars? So some rich dudes don’t die while they check off their latest bucket list conquest? How about if they just stay home? Then build a cableway. These would be poles, anchored into the ground, carrying cables. Small cable cars - maybe capable of carrying a person, maybe not - would be pulled by the cables in series of loops. (like a ski lift but between each base station). You use the cableway to pull the tools and supplies forward to build the next section of cableway. And of course a steady stream of full oxygen bottles, sending the empties back to the base camp. The incomplete far end of each section would need to be built by supplies toted from the nearest functioning endpoint. There would likely need to be generator stations to power the cableway winches, although you might be able to put the only generators at the airstrip. For some of the effort (lower altitudes) you could also use helicopters. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547/36 "2019-05-27T22:31:18Z")
The country of Armenia has the longest cableway in the world (Wings of Tatev) at 3.5 miles. And one of the poorest countries in the world (Nepal) is going to build one over 10 times as long (40 miles) Lukla to EBC. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547/37 "2019-05-28T00:45:22Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > Also, time pressure from the need to get back down before sunset – you don’t want to be climbing Everest in the dark! If I remember _Into Thin Air_ correctly, some of the climbers started the final summit attempt well before dawn, so that they could have daylight for the most difficult parts near the summit. They had moonlight to help them out in that case, though, so I don’t know how common that practice is/was. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547/38 "2019-05-28T01:01:31Z")
> [@MikeS](#): > > If I remember _Into Thin Air_ correctly, some of the climbers started the final summit attempt well before dawn, so that they could have daylight for the most difficult parts near the summit. That’s pretty common practice in all alpine assaults. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547/39 "2019-05-28T01:43:25Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > Then build a cableway. These would be poles, anchored into the ground, carrying cables. Small cable cars - maybe capable of carrying a person, maybe not - would be pulled by the cables in series of loops. (like a ski lift but between each base station). > > You use the cableway to pull the tools and supplies forward to build the next section of cableway. And of course a steady stream of full oxygen bottles, sending the empties back to the base camp. > > The incomplete far end of each section would need to be built by supplies toted from the nearest functioning endpoint. There would likely need to be generator stations to power the cableway winches, although you might be able to put the only generators at the airstrip. > > For some of the effort (lower altitudes) you could also use helicopters. But why would you WANT to do all this? Everest is at tremendously high altitude. I was serious earlier when I said it’s no Disneyland, and it shouldn’t be made into one. The “Death Zone” is not hyperbole: above 25,000 feet, the body cannot acclimate, and lung cells begin to die off. People develop HACE and HAPE all the time, and O2 and make-it-easy fixed lines and scaffolding won’t help that at all. FWIW, I don’t think doubling the fee is enough. I stand by my assertion that the fee needs to be quadrupled AND there need to be additional limitations, such as qualifying via other climbs or maybe banning guided groups. Sherpas should get paid much more than they are, too. There are too many people on Everest, and since the window of opportunity is so small, they’re all trying to summit at once.There’s no upside to this overcrowding. Enough already. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547/40 "2019-05-28T03:39:19Z")
**SamuelA** , I have several problems with your ideas: [ul] [li]There is a buttload of garbage already on that mountain, and your proposal will add more to it. Do we not have enough pollution?[/li][li]The whole point of climbing Everest is to _climb it_, not ride a cable car.[/li][li]Putting that sort of infrastructure on one of the most beautiful places in the world is just _tacky_.[/li][li]As others have already explained, the terrain and the altitude make your suggestions impossible.[/li][li]Having even more people going up that mountain will only destroy it faster. [/li][/ul] \*\*nelliebly’s \*\*ideas are better. Increase the fee a lot, so it’s not something people do just because; institute a quota system to prevent the traffic jams that are killing people; require that anyone making the attempt be an experienced, qualified climber; and pay the Sherpas more so they don’t feel forced into guiding amateurs because its the only way they can earn a living. \ Might be nice if folks were told they had to be able to pack out everything they bring in, too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mt-everest-summit-human-traffic-jam/834547.md?page=3)