Muddying the message: Punk

The BBQ Pit
21

Punk is different now. You’ve just gotta chill and accept it. Back in the 70s and stuff, it’s was revolutionary, it was about social change, blah blah blah (I’m a young 'un, so I really can’t say I have first hand proof of it, but that’s what you guys say now) but you’ve just got to accept that it’s something different now. It’s not longer shocking, and therefore isn’t able to carry the ‘don’t give a fuck’ revolution.

So now, what punk talks about is purely a style of music and a style of dress. Different groups (the preps, etc) have taken on certain elements of the punk dress style because, hey, it looks cool. Don’t get your panties in a twist over it, it’s just the way things are. Doesn’t mean you can’t be a ‘true punk’ on the inside. Doesn’t mean you can’t fight the system, question authority, and be loud and angry. Just means you have to accept that people might think you look good, rather than shocking, in your green hair and safety pins.

[sub]The above is purely my opinion. I realize that since I’m young, I don’t have a real good perspective on all this. But, really, it’s a fucking shirt and visor. Get over it.[/sub]

22

Totally, 100% perfect. Way better than I did. :smiley:
(applause over, nothing else to see here, move along.)

23

Aw, you crazy kids with your punk and your music and your hair.

Back in MY day, we wore an onion on our belts-as was the style back then…zzzzzzzzz

24

Punk… I have ceased to believe that word has, or has ever had, any actual meaning apart from whatever the speaker intends it to mean (which, even at that, doesn’t often reveal much). Sit down Minor Threat, Black Flagg, and DK in the same room and see if they can get a consensus on punk. Then toss in the Sex Pistols and the Mistfits and you might as well forget it.

Punk, if anything, was a movement dedicated to being loud about something. Didn’t matter what, you just had to be loud. The music, the appearance, the behavior: it had to scream. As such, it is entirely open to crass commercialism. Check out DK’s “Anarchy for Sale” on Bedtime for Democracy. They knew it back then, too. :wink:

I consider myself an ex-punk, sometimes a crusty punk, sometimes I just forget about it. I, too, missed “the golden age” of punk, but what did I really miss anyway? I don’t know.

But, it was better than being a metal-head. :smiley:

25

Not only did you say something nice in the pit, not only did you say it in a punk rock thread, but you tried to weasel some obscure Aussie records out of me. Now that’s punk.

BTW, I don’t have any old C.R. records, but I’ll send you my ‘Ex Pistols’ 12" in exchange for a couple of packets of Hershey’s Peanut Butter Cups (impossible to find here). It’s a heck of a bad record, but it’s a Sex Pistols knockoff name like the Rifles ;).

26

Your problem is that you are a tool.

Or at least, you were when you wrote that lame-ass rant. What difference does it make what other people wear? Do you remember when Catholics got all upset about George Michael turning the cross into a fashion accessory? See what I’m getting at? Hmmmm?

Listen to music. Listen to what you like no matter what anyone else says, especially fuckwits who would put you down for listening to “sell-outs” or anything too “mainstream.”

[yoda]Then, and only then, a punk-rocker will you be.[/yoda]

27

Punk’s not dead
It just deserves to die
When it becomes another stale cartoon
A close-minded, self-centered social club
Ideas don’t matter, it’s who you know

If the music’s gotten boring
It’s because of the people
Who want everyone to sound the same

Who drive bright people out
Of our so-called scene
'Til all that’s left
Is just a meaningless fad

Hardcore formulas are dogshit
Change and caring are what’s real
Is this a state of mind
Or just another label?

The joy and hope of an alternative
Has become its own cliche
A hairstyle’s not a lifestyle
Imagine Sid Vicious at 35

Who needs a scene
Scared to love and to feel
Judging everything
By loud fast rules appeal

Who played last night?
‘I don’t know, I forgot.
But diving off the stage
Was a lot of fun.’

So eager to please
Peer pressure decrees
So eager to please
Peer pressure decrees
Make the same old mistakes
Again and again
Chickenshit conformist
Like your parents

What’s ripped us apart even more than drugs
Are the thieves and the goddamn liars
Flipping people off when they share their stuff
When someone falls are there any friends?

Harder core than thou for a year or two
Then it’s time to get a real job
Others stay home, it’s no fun to go out
When the gigs are wrecked by gangs and thugs

When the thugs form bands, look who gets record deals
From New York metal labels looking to scam
Who sign the most racist queerbashing bands they can find
To make a buck revving kids up for war

Walk tall, act small
Only as tough as gang approval
Unity is bullshit
When it’s under someone’s fat boot

Where’s the common cause?
Too many factions
Safely sulk in their shells
Agree with us on everything
Or we won’t help with anything
That kind of attitude
Just makes a split grow wider

Guess who’s laughing while the world explodes
When we’re all crybabies
Who fight best among ouselves

So eager to please
Peer pressure decrees
So eager to please
Peer pressure decrees
Make the same old mistakes
Again and again
Chickenshit conformist
Like your parents

That farty old rock and roll attitude’s back
‘It’s competition, man, we wanna break big.’
Who needs friends when the money’s good?
That’s right, the 70s are back.

Cock-rock metal’s like a bad laxative
It just don’t move me, ya know?
The music’s OK when there’s more ideas than solos
Do we really need the attitude too?

Shedding thin skin too quickly
As a fan it disappoints me
Same old stupid sexist lyrics
Or is Satan all you can think of?

Crossover is just another word
For lack of ideas
Maybe what we need
Are more trolls under the bridge
Will the metalheads finally learn something
Or will the punks throw away their education?

No one’s ever the best
Once they believe their own press
‘Maturing’ don’t mean rehashing
Mistakes of the past

So eager to please
Peer pressure decrees
So eager to please
Peer pressure decrees
Make the same old mistakes
Again and again
Chickenshit conformist
Like your parents

The more things change
The more they stay the same
We can’t grow
When we won’t criticize ourselves
The 60s weren’t all failure
It’s the 70s that stunk
As the clock ticks we dig the same hole

Music scenes ain’t real life
They won’t get rid of the bomb
Won’t eliminate rape
Or bring down the banks
Any kind of real change
Takes more time and work
Than changing channels on a TV set

So why are we
So eager to please
Peer pressure decrees
So eager to please
Peer pressure decrees
Make the same old mistakes
Again and again
Chickenshit conformist
Like your parents.

“Chickenshit Conformist” By DK

BTW, The OP amused me no end.

28

that day punk became elitist and exclusionary was the day punk died. Please tell me your not one of the “sell out” crowd. If you got a chance to make a decent living out of what you love to do, you would JUMP at the chance, regardless of wether you’re “Selling out” or not.

29

This thread inspired a conversation between me and another Doper.

We both work for major corporations. We both have the appearance of the typical drone. But we still listen to the music and still support the scene, just with our money and not our parents.

It’s what’s inside, not what you wear.

30

Francesca, there really isn’t a message in there. He’s just pretty odd, and I thought that was about the funniest thing I’ve heard in a while.

And waterj2, nice reference to McLuhan. However, the title is actually “The medium is the massage.” Suprised me when I first noticed that.

And actually, I do have green hair :slight_smile: But because a hot girl asked me to dye it again. How’s that for sell-out :wink:

31

Eh? I think waterj2 is correct. The title of the book (and documentary IIRC) is a play on McLuhan’s widely-recognised phrase: “the medium is the message”, originally from his book “Understanding Media”.

32

I am too friggin nice for the pit.

33

well…what if someone starts a pit thread saying Pez suck?:wink:

34

That’s true. It’s one of the most famous phrases ever uttered by a Canadian, the other one being “generation X” (Douglas Coupland).

As for TV, I just think the tedium is the message.

35

Everyone is entitled to their opinion I suppose. :smiley:

36

Isn’t the phrase “generation X” itself much older, though it was used to mean something different?

Not that this would stop me from rating Coupland’s book as my favorite ever, nor Coupland as my favorite author, but truth is beauty and all that.

pan

37

Checking in as another old punk (mid to late 80’s punk). I have to admit the commercialization disturbs me, but every generation has had thier movement co-opted and mainstreamed.

I have friends that are older than I am and were around in the late 70’s and early 80’s - and even in that time there were those into punk for the fashion, or the girls who wanted to date a bad boy.

I have in my own memories people who I considered fashion punks (Buying the most fashionable punk looking clothes), red necks with mohawks, groupies & sluts who didn’t care about punk (only that the guy was in a band or was a bad boy), weekend punks (ones who looked like that 80’s show girl), try-hards and posers with brank new levis they had torn with razor blades the day before, as well as those who were what I would call punk, and most of those who I would have considered real punks, didn’t have a look - they just were.

I had a mohawk once myself, and more hair colors than I could count. The scene I knew was like that - some people with the look some who looked pretty normal.

But really what was and is punk? The commonality was a dislike or out right hate of the establishment, the music and that we were not quiet about it. Most of the punks I knew didn’t fit into normal society - either by choice or by design.

Some were socialists, some anarchists, some even fasists - those punks I knew, most of them still hold the same beliefs, and still aren’t quiet about it - but we look pretty normal.

What happened? We grew up, and watched some of our friends live & die in excess - the drugs and the pain over whelmed them.

And now, punk is a label, a brand almost. A bunch of the bands I used to listen to have re-united to go on tour and it is easier to find good music. Things I do mind: Blink 182, Offspring, Green Day (This isn’t punk - it is commercial pop played a bit harder and slapped with a label of punk). Some re-united bands like DK are just a commercial enterprize and knowing jello is not a part of it - I wouldn’t go see them. But - at this age I do get nostalgic for my youth and I am glad to see that I can buy on CD stuff that I though I had lost forever because my LPs were so scratched that they weren’t worth keeping. I am glad I may get to see some bands I haven’t seen in 10 or more years. I don’t mind sharing this with the kids today.

38

From the OP:

**

McLaren recognized a trend while he was selling clothing, then abandoned selling clothing in order to further (and capitalize on) that trend.

39

**

Nope. The quote is “the medium is the message,” but the book is “The Medium is the Massage.”

Which, incidentally, is the same link that was in red_dragon60’s post.

40

Um, isn’t that what I said? :confused: waterj2 was referring to the original quote, but red_dragon60 mistakenly thought that he was referring to the book, so I popped in to quickly correct him. Now you’re correcting me and, um, I’m not quite sure why. bites nails in confuzzlement