# Mugabe self-Godwins, then attacks strikers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2003, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mugabe-self-godwins-then-attacks-strikers/164357 "2003-03-26T19:06:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mugabe-self-godwins-then-attacks-strikers/164357/21 "2003-03-27T15:01:36Z")
I knew Mugabe was another wacky dictator, but I’ve never before heard somebody refer to _hiimself_ as another Hitler. Does Saddam still get to be Hitler? (Although I think he’s more like Stalin.) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mugabe-self-godwins-then-attacks-strikers/164357/22 "2003-03-27T15:05:21Z")
What **El Kabong** said. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mugabe-self-godwins-then-attacks-strikers/164357/23 "2003-03-27T15:23:22Z")
By the way, advocating the Brits to be involved is probably a very bad idea, given the propaganda Mugabe has been feeding his people about all their problems being created by the Brits - I predict that for a large sector of the population the war would seem like a war of colonisation rather than liberation. It would be as foolhardy as the US (and the Brits) invading an Islamic country to liberate it… ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mugabe-self-godwins-then-attacks-strikers/164357/24 "2003-03-27T18:09:02Z")
This may be the first recorded case of auto-Godwining. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mugabe-self-godwins-then-attacks-strikers/164357/25 "2003-03-27T21:43:30Z")
Doris Lessing’s article on Robert Mugabe [here](http://www.nybooks.com/articles/16170). The tragedy is underscored by Zimbabwe’s freefall; when Mugabe came to power, that country was called “the jewel of Africa”. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mugabe-self-godwins-then-attacks-strikers/164357/26 "2003-03-27T23:50:26Z")
Are you guys opposed to the US intervention sure that anyone else _can_ take Mugabe out? He’s got a pretty decent military, right? Sort of inherited Zimbabwe’s? Didn’t they used to be one of the area’s better ones? Plus, if anyone else does it, won’t there be far larger civilian and troop casualties? I guess its a pipe dream. The US simply can’t afford to get rid of Mugabe politically. Chirac would be burning the US flag in the streets himself. The Germans would probably announce their opposition to any attempt to remove the man. The US has no room to move. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mugabe-self-godwins-then-attacks-strikers/164357/27 "2003-03-28T00:12:52Z")
> [@](#): > > He’s got a pretty decent military, right? Sort of inherited Zimbabwe’s? Didn’t they used to be one of the area’s better ones? Militarily, they’re far less than they used to be. Air force, IIRC, consists mainly of a few Hawk trainer/ground attack aircraft, a handful of Chinese knockoffs of the Mig-21, some '50’s-era Hunters (which may be completely out of service by now), and some aging Alouette helicopters. A few years back, as reported in Air International, the US offered the country two C-130’s for FREE; Zim refused because they couldn’t afford to purchase spares for them. Lotta manpower in the ground forces, but they’re not well-paid or fed, and not much armor. The main argument against knocking over Mugabe, IMO, is the same as for elsewhere: nobody officially asked us to do it and whether it makes sense to us or not, he retains a large base of support that could make any external attempt at regime change a long and fairly bloody struggle. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mugabe-self-godwins-then-attacks-strikers/164357/28 "2003-03-28T00:42:49Z")
Does anybody know if there are any sub-Saharan African political/defense pacts in existence? The most “prosperous” and stable of Zimbabwe’s neighbors are probably Swaziland, South Africa, and Zambia. Not a very promising basis for an interventionist coalition. However, if pan-African organizations or coalitions petitioned the United Nations for an intervention, citing their own security concerns and the influx of refugees from Zimbabwe, as well as the obvious human rights issues involved for the oppressed groups in Zimbabwe, then something might happen. One possibly promising development: as alluded to by Lessing in her article, the Mugabe regime is importing Chinese workers in an attempt to stabilize agricultural production (and dampen labor unrest, perhaps?). The Chinese guest worker angle could be a promising tripwire in the U.N. in the future, the moment Mugabe inevitably aims his goon squads at them. ---
**Author:** ![Danimal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Danimal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danimal)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mugabe-self-godwins-then-attacks-strikers/164357/29 "2003-03-28T01:20:10Z")
OK, I’m officially agnostic on whether Mugabe should be taken down by outside intervention or not. If he starts doing to the Ndebele what the Hutus did to the Tutsis, then absolutely I’m in favor of taking him down. But some observers believe that the Zimbabweans may yet take care of Mugabe themselves, and that his hold on power is more tenuous than it looks. I’m not sure the situation is so bad yet that a war might not be worse. I vehemently disagree with the idea implicit in many of these posts here that it is preferable to let the people of Zimbabwe die at Mugabe’s hands rather than subject them to the degradation of rescue at the hands of the evil unilateralist USA. An international coalition might well be the preferable means of saving them. But, having once taken the decision that a war against Mugabe is a lesser evil than doing nothing (which I’m not presently sure of), and if an international coalition cannot be organized for the task, I think it’s indefensible to maintain that leaving the Zimbabweans to their fate is better than unilateral U.S. action (or unilateral action by anybody else, for that matter) to save them. ---
**Author:** ![Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satisfying_Andy_Licious)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mugabe-self-godwins-then-attacks-strikers/164357/30 "2003-03-28T06:10:08Z")
I read the link on Mugabe, and it’s very scary. My question is this, though: Who is the self-Godwin reference referring to? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mugabe-self-godwins-then-attacks-strikers/164357.md?page=1)