Lamia: Yep! That’s exactly what I mean. I have met quite a lot the “I’m black but I’m not descended from any of those Africans” type of people. Every time I’ve come across such a person, I was in an area with a large population of people from the Bahamas, Jamaica etc. The people saying this about themselves were usually from one of those areas. The others usually knew lots of people from those areas. Some of these people were my Bahamian family members. **Askia’s ** statement about Bob Marley (which he later clarified) seemed to be headed in that direction, so I brought it up.
I don’t have a problem with the “I’m not African, I’ve never even been to Africa!” people, since I’m in the same boat. I don’t mind if someone uses the term African American for me though (it would be accurate, since my father’s partly descended from African slaves sent to the Bahamas and some of my mother’s ancestors are African slaves dropped off in the U.S. There’s some other nationalities in the mix too, but that’s beside the point).
It seems that I’m the only one in this discussion who has met such a person.
Okay. I misread your answer. I’m interested in people for which the preference is so strong that they always use the term. Not just for clarification purposes, but people who consider “black” to be on a level near “colored” for example. Like **holmes ** and his circle, apparently.
It seems that my posts have been less than clear, sorry about that. I’ll just say again, that I don’t mind what **holmes , or anyone else calls himself. I simply think that the "I’m black/ Italian but I’m not descended from any of those Africans/ Italians" thing is weird. Historical issues aside. *Any race or nationality can go there.
If you want me to call you, white, black, or cablinasian, then okay, whatever. Oh, and holmes, trust me, there’s no way that I’d be surprised at a freckled, pale blond haired, blue eyed person walking in when I was expecting an AA. You’d have to be purple to shock me. Come visit my family and you’ll understand why.
Oh, for Christ’s sake! They’re refering to American blacks/Africans who are considered lesser because of the slavery issue and the portrayal of them as being lazy and the rest…I think Askia mentioned that other “Africans” are very clear that they are not African-Americans, when they are called that. Sorry it took so long, but when you used “Africans”, I assumed you meant well, “Africans”.
My original point about people who were clearly black, had to do with Carribbean people who say that they are not descendants of Africans. Mariah Carey was used to counter your Lena Horne/Wesley Snipes example of why black was inaccurate. With Mariah, you have a woman with European features, yet no one is confused when she’s called black. Because in America black is a term used to describe people with African ancestry. Just as you say later in your post, no matter how white you are, if you tell people about your relative, then people are going to consider you black. Is black the most accurate term in the world? No, but you do know what it means in this country. As Askia says, in other countries, black doesn’t always mean the same thing that it does here.
As I said in the post written previous to this one, I don’t care if Joe calls himself a purple people eater. He knows what someone means when they ask if he’s Italian. Being Italian doesn’t mean that you love pasta and speak Italian and have ties with the mob. It means, you, or at least some of your family comes from Italy. Joe is free to say that yes, he’s part Italian but doesn’t really care about the country. He’s free to say, “nope, not Italian”, but that would be a lie.
No reasonable person believes religon doesn’t exist. Religion is there, just as race is. Well race doesn’t exist in a scientific sense, but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t in sociological sense. The same thing defines blackness as defines all races. The race of your ancestors. If you want to consider yourself raceless, then fine. Don’t expect most to agree with you, and don’t get upset if they think you’re lying or being disingenuous. If someone is filling out a form that calls for race, then most will answer honestly, since we know exactly what the question is asking. Some people will check other, then write in “human,” but they still understand the basic question.
I assume that it would depend on the Rabbi. The black Jews of Ethiopia certainly weren’t accepted by all with open arms.
No, in my conversation, the guy then says, but you’re part white right? In which case the correct answer is yes. Throughout this entire thread, I’ve been talking about people who deny that they have African heritage when they do. Obviously, yes I can see a similar conversation happening, because I’ve seen it happen, a lot. That’s the reason that I brought it up, and ended up in this whole discussion. Basically, the conversation would go a lot like the ones that I brought up in my other posts. Bill, seeing Joe, and/or hearing his last name, asks if he’s Italian. Now, Joe is part Italian, but doesn’t feel any affinity to the place. Does he get to answer the question in the negative? IMO, no.
Well, in this case mmdv. There have been plenty of times that someone (a white person) will mention the term “African American” in conversation, which sparks a discussion in which every black person in the room will agree that they consider themselves black.
Geez, you keep sneaking in there while I’m typing things out holmes. No, they’re refering to Africans. You know, the people from Africa. That live there and always have. When I say African, it’s because I mean African. There are people who for some reason, believe that Blacks are native to the Carribbean. Not dropped off on slave ships from Africa. That they were always there, and started out there. I’m not talking about black Americans, or African Americans, and calling them African*. AFAIK, When I originally posted, Askia never said anything about the situation that you mistakenly believe I was referring too all along. So, when I saw his statement, I believed that he might be one of these people.
And on that note, I’m bowing out of this thread. This is less a discussion at this point than a merry-go-round. This is the reason that I don’t venture into GD.
*A quick consultation with a relative has confirmed that the situation I’m talking about does in fact exist. That might not be of any interest to anyone else, but I needed to confirm that I hadn’t been misunderstanding for all these years. As I said earlier, since I’m the only one here that knows about it, it must be more rare than I orignally thought.
Yes, there are people out there like the ones that you are talking about, who don’t want to be lumped in with black/ African Americans, but that isn’t the phenomenon that I’ve been talking about.
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Okay, so I am back, but just to clarify my last post. Have a nice day folks:)