# Mullah, Mosque & State **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 29, 2010, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154 "2010-05-29T06:24:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154/21 "2010-05-30T11:10:45Z")
Original thought doesn’t seem to be any extremist Islamic believer’s forté. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154/22 "2010-05-30T11:14:28Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Original thought doesn’t seem to be any extremist Islamic believer’s forté. I wonder if there is something about a “believer” that turns him into a parrot? ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154/23 "2010-05-30T11:21:26Z")
> [@Abisafyan](#): > > The craze in your mind is severely brain-deep, duffer, so u are cureless. You don’t know even the simple fact that all Muslims all over the world have been using Arabic while offering their religious praying. Mate, I am well aware that you pray using set Arabic phrases. Means fuck all relative to some oddball obsession to avoid saying Mosque, a word that’s just a deformation of the Arabic anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154/24 "2010-05-30T12:20:28Z")
Here is a former Islamic Terrorist explaining Shari law. Right from the mouth of a former terrorist you learn their trade. If we let a Muslim build a Mosque at ground zero it is considered to be forever owned by them. It is also an embassy. Not to mention it is the ultimate show of laughing in our faces about 9-11. Anyone who tears down a mosque will bring all of the fury of the Muslims because we cannot destroy it. They tore down our Twin Towers with all the innocent civilian deaths and want to replace them with their worship site? How utterly despicable. This is what they are doing in Europe and our Democratic ways will play right into their hands if we allow it. Be informed. [http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&mpid=111&load=3660](http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&mpid=111&load=3660) ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154/25 "2010-05-30T12:47:32Z")
> [@Abisafyan](#): > > The craze in your mind is severely brain-deep, duffer, so u are cureless. You don’t know even the simple fact that all Muslims all over the world have been using Arabic while offering their religious praying. Heh. You called him a duffer. This is turning into a _great_ debate. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154/26 "2010-05-30T14:37:56Z")
> [@Abisafyan](#): > > The craze in your mind is severely brain-deep, duffer, so u are cureless. You don’t know even the simple fact that all Muslims all over the world have been using Arabic while offering their religious praying. Your odd manner of expression (as perceived by the typical audience, here), may have prompted some less than reverent responses to your posts, but on this board you will refrain from responding to such comments with direct, personal insults. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154/27 "2010-05-30T16:14:26Z")
It hurts my brain to read the OP. Urinals, mosquitos, measuring tape? What the hell is he on about? Could someone call him on his cell for more info? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154/28 "2010-05-30T16:36:41Z")
> [@Abisafyan](#): > > You don’t know even the simple fact that all Muslims all over the world have been using Arabic while offering their religious praying. Ah, but do they understand the language or are they just reciting the phrases phonetically through rote memorization? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154/29 "2010-05-30T18:03:02Z")
> [@Abisafyan](#): > > Nevertheless all Islamic terms which have been defined by Almighty Himself in Holy Qur’an or His Almighty’s last Prophet Mohammad PBUH in his PBUH Hadith must not be substituted by other terms. Dude, Mohammad just _made up_ everything in the Koran. It’s no more the word of God than the Torah or the Gospels or the Book of Mormon. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154/30 "2010-05-30T18:11:31Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > It hurts my brain to read the OP. Urinals, mosquitos, measuring tape? What the hell is he on about? Could someone call him on his cell for more info? My best guess is that it is the thoughts of a devout Muslim who is challenging some of the political actions and decrees of some of the more conservative Muslims of the world. On the one hand, his basic thesis will get a hearty affirmative from most of this board, (which overwhelmingly favors the separation of church and state), and a mild affirmative from some large number of posters who agree that mullahs are not guided by God, but will run into a lot of harrassment from the large contingent of posters who dismiss all religious beliefs, some of whom will even go out of their way to denigrate religious expressions with which they concur, based on a need to denigrate all religious belief. ETA [/Modding]: The staff is aware that this is not the only board on which this has been posted and that it might cross the line into glurge, but as long as the discussion remains civil and the OP remains responsive, we are currently going to allow this thread to remain open. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154/31 "2010-05-30T19:34:36Z")
I would like to point out that this article appeared last year in Pakistan during the militancy u[surge in Swat district and was written by the President of the Local Bar Association in Swat (a man I know and respect, though usually disgaree with). At a time when militant and miscreants were terrorising the whole district, attacking mosques, schools, markets and homes, undertaking target killings and beheading people and hanging their corpses in the town square, this article (it was published and distributed) publication was an extremely courageous step. It is all very well to talk of free speech sitting at a computer on a message board where your true identity is unknown. It is quite another to do so in the middle of a warzone when you will certainly become a target. For what its worth, “urinal” in Pakistan (and other South Asian countries as well) is often used as a synonym for “improvised place of waste disposal”. What he his saying is that the Mullahs can’t even stop people from urinating on walls of their mosques. ---
**Author:** ![Abisafyan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a4c791/32.png) [@Abisafyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abisafyan)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154/32 "2010-05-31T16:43:41Z")
Uhuh. By that logic you should just speak Arabic and forget all other languages. **Daft.** You lads in Pakistan have a lot of issues. Anyway, I always have been told that the concept of mosque didn’t really emerge as such until way after the Quran, so… doesn’t make much sense as an argument. > [@tomndebb](#): > > Your odd manner of expression (as perceived by the typical audience, here), may have prompted some less than reverent responses to your posts, but on this board you will refrain from responding to such comments with direct, personal insults. > > [/Moderating] Mr Moderator, could not you see the filthy word, “Daft” your blue eyed \*\*wmfellows \*\* used for me, without any reasons???\ if this is the standard of your moderation I am not to stay here at all cost. The message boards are in thousands if not in millions!!! who breaches first makes himself entitled for prompt action and not the defender, do you understand, Mr moderator??? ---
**Author:** ![Abisafyan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a4c791/32.png) [@Abisafyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abisafyan)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154/33 "2010-05-31T17:07:28Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I would like to point out that this article appeared last year in Pakistan during the militancy u[surge in Swat district and was written by the President of the Local Bar Association in Swat (a man I know and respect, though usually disgaree with). > > At a time when militant and miscreants were terrorising the whole district, attacking mosques, schools, markets and homes, undertaking target killings and beheading people and hanging their corpses in the town square, this article (it was published and distributed) publication was an extremely courageous step. It is all very well to talk of free speech sitting at a computer on a message board where your true identity is unknown. It is quite another to do so in the middle of a warzone when you will certainly become a target. > > For what its worth, “urinal” in Pakistan (and other South Asian countries as well) is often used as a synonym for “improvised place of waste disposal”. What he his saying is that the Mullahs can’t even stop people from urinating on walls of their mosques. Um, u hit the bulls-eye. a number of attacks were carried out against me but thanks to Allah Almighty who rescued me completely. Why most of honorable members use filthy language so easily and without reasons on such boards?? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154/34 "2010-05-31T17:14:57Z")
> [@Abisafyan](#): > > the filthy word, “Daft” If “daft” is going to be not just over the line but “filthy”, we’re going to have a substantial disconnect. As it is, WM called your argument daft, not you. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154/35 "2010-05-31T17:34:25Z")
Frankly, I’d like to hear more about the experiences of an educated person in the midst of military conflict. I don’t understand all the stuff about the mullahs, though, nor can I say I’m all that excited about a proposal to reform Islam (if that’s what it was) since I’d be happier if it overall ceased to exist. ---
**Author:** ![Abisafyan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a4c791/32.png) [@Abisafyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abisafyan)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154/36 "2010-05-31T18:00:06Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > If “daft” is going to be not just over the line but “filthy”, we’re going to have a substantial disconnect. > As it is, WM called your argument daft, not you. Very strange defense, some cure are said to be more harmful than disease. same is this defense. Every body has got every right to disagree with my arguments but none has got any right to call it a daft. Arguments emanating from mind so calling argument as daft is more severe than calling me as daft instead. And if I borrow your defense that I call WM’s arguments as duffer, then would you acquit me? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154/37 "2010-05-31T18:03:26Z")
No, **Abisafyan** , you have it wrong. We can’t call **you** daft, but we can say what we want about your opinions. It’s called “freedom of expression”. It’s one of the things we pride ourselves on, here in the decadent West. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154/38 "2010-05-31T18:08:06Z")
> [@Abisafyan](#): > > Every body has got every right to disagree with my arguments but none has got any right to call it a daft. Check the forum rules, we do indeed have the right to call your argument all sorts of things. It’s you as a person we’re not allowed to insult. > [@Abisafyan](#): > > Arguments emanating from mind so calling argument as daft is more severe than calling me as daft instead. No, it’s not. Saying your argument is nutty is not the same as calling you a crazy person. Even normal people sometime advance silly arguments. > [@Abisafyan](#): > > And if I borrow your defense that I call WM’s arguments as duffer, then would you acquit me? Well, no, because that wouldn’t make any sense. Someone’s argument can’t be a “duffer”. You have my personal sanction (for what it’s worth) to refer to WM’s argument as any pejorative you like, if it makes you feel better. ---
**Author:** ![Abisafyan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a4c791/32.png) [@Abisafyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abisafyan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154/39 "2010-06-08T07:43:01Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Check the forum rules, we do indeed have the right to call your argument all sorts of things. It’s you as a person we’re not allowed to insult. > > No, it’s not. Saying your argument is nutty is not the same as calling you a crazy person. Even normal people sometime advance silly arguments. > > Well, no, because that wouldn’t make any sense. Someone’s argument can’t be a “duffer”. You have my personal sanction (for what it’s worth) to refer to WM’s argument as any pejorative you like, if it makes you feel better. Very very weird offensive defense and counter arguments. Simple is that ‘be with us or against us’ ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154/40 "2010-06-08T07:53:01Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > If we let a Muslim build a Mosque at ground zero it is considered to be forever owned by them. It is also an embassy. > > Not to mention it is the ultimate show of laughing in our faces about 9-11. Anyone who tears down a mosque will bring all of the fury of the Muslims because we cannot destroy it. They tore down our Twin Towers with all the innocent civilian deaths and want to replace them with their worship site? How utterly despicable. Hope you’ve got blue eyes, **Perciful** , because then it can’t be mistaken for racial bigotry when I describe the claims in your post as somewhere on the border between breathtakingly ignorant and batshit insane. > [@Abisafyan](#): > > Very very weird offensive defense and counter arguments. Yeah well, it’s how we roll. Welcome to the Straight Dope, **Abisafyan**! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mullah-mosque-state/541154.md?page=3)