# Multiculturalism - a no brainer **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 16, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971 "2011-03-16T22:34:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971/141 "2011-03-21T00:03:21Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I think that this thread helps demonstrate that yes, opposition to multiculturalism _really is_ mostly about racism, deep down. It certainly didn’t take long to devolve into yet another “blacks and brown people are inferior” thread. > > Considering that the so-called “crime rate” is just how often the police choose to arrest someone and how often the courts choose to convict, racism matters. Race and gender and social class affect “crime rate” by affecting whether or not the cops & courts will look the other way, or use you as a scapegoat and ram a conviction through regardless of your innocence. Anyone who is not delusional knows that blacks have a much higher crime rate than whites or Orientals. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, “In 2005, [murder] rates for blacks were more than 7 times higher than the rates for whites.” [http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm](http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm) This is what Jesse Jackson has to say about the matter: “There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved… After all we have been through. Just to think we can’t walk down our own streets, how humiliating.” > **[Jesse Jackson - Wikiquote](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jesse_Jackson)** ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971/142 "2011-03-21T00:11:06Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > You will note that I used the term “class”, not just race. Plus his relationship was with a white woman; it is a common practice by police to ignore violence in such in order to punish the white woman. Just as the cops let Jeffery Dahmer haul off his last bleeding victim, laughing at him; they let violence in gay relationships go on, out of malice. And just as the cops if given a choice will arrest the man in most domestic disputes, even if the woman is unhurt and he has broken bones or stab wounds. > > Wealth, race, sexuality and gender matter more than innocence or guilt. So isolated examples in Dahmer’s case prove this is always true? ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971/143 "2011-03-21T00:18:33Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I think that this thread helps demonstrate that yes, opposition to multiculturalism _really is_ mostly about racism, deep down. It certainly didn’t take long to devolve into yet another “blacks and brown people are inferior” thread. The Dalai Lama certainly always struck me as a racist, deep down 🙂 In terms of the Gottfredson stats, the issue is that inequality creates social tensions. Hence the need to have skill selection in immigration to minimise this. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971/144 "2011-03-21T00:19:39Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > So isolated examples in Dahmer’s case prove this is always true? No, Dahmer was just an example off the top of my head; that doesn’t make it an “isolated example”. The prevalence of bigotry among the police is well known. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971/145 "2011-03-21T00:38:51Z")
I didn’t realize that people still referred to Asians as “Orientals” but I’m not surprised that NDD is one of those that do. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971/146 "2011-03-21T00:43:08Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I didn’t realize that people still referred to Asians as “Orientals” but I’m not surprised that NDD is one of those that do. Asians can be Arabs, Iranians, or Indians. These are considered to be Caucasians. I could call them Mongoloids, but that can refer to people with Down’s Syndrome. I could call them East Asians, but Orientals seems easier. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971/147 "2011-03-21T01:09:04Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’m not sure what you are getting at, here. Whose statements do you think are by those who think “brown and black people are inferior.” Just NDD or knowing you anyone who said black culture is partially a reason by blacks do not do as well in many areas\>? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971/148 "2011-03-21T01:17:43Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Whose statements do you think are by those who think “brown and black people are inferior.” The claims that they are less intelligent and innately more violent are a claim they are inferior. If someone called you a stupid thug would you take it as a complement? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971/149 "2011-03-21T01:36:26Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The claims that they are less intelligent and innately more violent are a claim they are inferior. I absolutely agree with that statement. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971/150 "2011-03-21T01:51:49Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The claims that they are less intelligent and innately more violent are a claim they are inferior. If someone called you a stupid thug would you take it as a complement? Except it isn’t that straightforward. We’re not talking about absolute qualities. We’re talking about different statistical distributions of traits. You’re still going to get very smart individuals from the lower scoring group, the same way you’ll get very stupid individuals from the higher scoring group. The problem is where people expect the same statistical outcomes and when that doesn’t happen suggest it is due to discrimination, or bad teachers, or institutional bias. In fact, statistical differences between groups are to be expected across diverse human populations. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971/151 "2011-03-21T01:59:30Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > The problem is where people expect the same statistical outcomes and when that doesn’t happen suggest it is due to discrimination, or bad teachers, or institutional bias. In fact, statistical differences between groups are to be expected across human populations. Supposed “statistical differences” which just happen to perfectly match caricatures created by historic prejudice. :rolleyes: I see no reason to regard your “statistical differences” as anything other than yet another attempt to use pseudoscience to justify racism. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971/152 "2011-03-21T02:13:57Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Supposed “statistical differences” which just happen to perfectly match caricatures created by historic prejudice. :rolleyes: > > I see no reason to regard your “statistical differences” as anything other than yet another attempt to use pseudoscience to justify racism. Well, they’re an attempt to measure observable phenomena. People can dispute the causes obviously. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971/153 "2011-03-21T03:04:19Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Supposed “statistical differences” which just happen to perfectly match caricatures created by historic prejudice. :rolleyes: > > I see no reason to regard your “statistical differences” as anything other than yet another attempt to use pseudoscience to justify racism. Historic prejudice was based on an accurate appraisal of racial differences. It was only during the civil rights movement that it became fashionable to lie about what was obviously true, and dangerous to tell the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Borzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@Borzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borzo)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971/154 "2011-03-21T03:11:02Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Historic prejudice was based on an accurate appraisal of racial differences. It was only during the civil rights movement that it became fashionable to lie about what was obviously true, and dangerous to tell the truth. What historical appraisals of Jews are accurate, but are currently being lied about? What is the real truth about Jews? ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971/155 "2011-03-21T03:15:24Z")
> [@Borzo](#): > > What historical appraisals of Jews are accurate, but are currently being lied about? What is the real truth about Jews? The real truth about the Ashkenazic Jews is that they are the most superior racial group in the world, with an average IQ of 112. Those who hate them resent their superiority. ---
**Author:** ![Borzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@Borzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borzo)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971/156 "2011-03-21T03:31:07Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > The real truth about the Ashkenazic Jews is that they are the most superior racial group in the world, with an average IQ of 112. Those who hate them resent their superiority. Would this suggest that Jews have been scapegoated in the past because people observed their obvious superiority and hated them for it? But the reason that Blacks have been scapegoated in the past is because people observed their obvious inferiority and hated them for it? ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971/157 "2011-03-21T03:43:07Z")
> [@Borzo](#): > > Would this suggest that Jews have been scapegoated in the past because people observed their obvious superiority and hated them for it? Market dominant minorities or successful groups have tended to be persecuted. See the ‘Kulaks’ in Stalin’s Russia, the ‘intellectuals’ in Cambodia under Pol Pot, Chinese in Malaysia & Indonesia, Indians in Kenya & Uganda etc. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971/158 "2011-03-21T04:17:22Z")
I note you carefully ignored the second half of **Borzo** ’s post. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971/159 "2011-03-21T04:32:23Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I note you carefully ignored the second half of **Borzo** ’s post. Well, I think most people would agree that persecuting people is bad. The fact that market dominant minorities have tended to get a hard time suggests that dominant majorities should try to maintain their majority status. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971/160 "2011-03-21T04:38:23Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Well, I think most people would agree that persecuting people is bad. Apparently not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiculturalism-a-no-brainer/574971.md?page=9)