# Multiple gunshots in Alexandria Virginia at the Congressional Baseball Practice. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 14, 2017, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930 "2017-06-14T12:05:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930/161 "2017-06-14T22:01:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I thought the same thing. From time to time, I see videos where, to me, everything about the situation says “RUN!!!”, and yet, the videographer is sticking around to record. Maybe I’ve just got a lower risk tolerance than other people, or care less about my social media standing, or maybe they don’t realize just how much danger they were in. I don’t know what it is. My favorite in that vein is someone videoing a large explosion, oohing and ahhing about its size, while they’re standing behind a glass window. Hilarity usually ensues. Bonus points if you can see the shock wave racing to the observer… As for the video, hearing “Crack, Crack,” in addition to “Boom, boom,” usually means you need to be somewhere else, fast. At least behind something solid. Thank God the guy was a poor shot. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930/162 "2017-06-14T22:02:24Z")
[FBI press conference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDUKhgKJGt8) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930/163 "2017-06-14T22:04:15Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Thank God the guy was a poor shot. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![nesta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@nesta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nesta)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930/164 "2017-06-14T22:12:35Z")
It seems the shooter lived about ten miles from where I sit. If all I knew was that someone from around here went on a politically motivated shooting spree I would have guessed an alt-right nutjub, not a far-left one. This county does have an interesting mix of rural conservatives, military conservatives, and urban progressives though. > [@gnoitall](#): > > [New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/14/us/steve-scalise-congress-shot-alexandria-virginia.html) is reporting that alleged shooter is identified. \*\*And dead.\*\*Belleville. Huh. Scott Air Force Base’s stomping grounds. As nice as the rest of the East St. Louis area, I guess. He lived a little south of Belleville, and his house is surrounded by corn and soybean fields. Not exactly what comes to mind when thinking of East St. Louis (one time murder capital of the country). > [@choie](#): > > (As an aside, a friend of mine lives in Belleville IL, and what she’s told me has always made the town seem like the one in Shirley Jackson’s _The Lottery_. It appears to be just a… really weird, insular community with religious families who can be really sweet but find themselves consumed by infighting and secretive bitchiness. Also a surprising number of RSOs.) I can’t really speak to Belleville’s city politics or infighting, but it’s an old town that used to be the upscale option in the county. Unfortunately it was bypassed by the interstate and has been in decline since. As a result there’s a lot of angst about their lost status. Other than that it seems a fairly normal Midwestern suburb, although now one of the poorer areas of the county. It wouldn’t surprise me if the area has a higher than average number of registered sex offenders. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930/165 "2017-06-14T22:14:41Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The SKS is an AK-47 pattern rifle. No. Not even remotely so. Unless perhaps all Soviet-bloc rifles are the same rifle? No… that’s not so, either. > [@](#): > > Uses the 7.62x39 cartridge. THIS is true. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930/166 "2017-06-14T22:15:32Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > This goes for everyone. So far I have only handed out one warning for what I felt was the most egregious political hijack. I am very unlikely to hand out just notes from now on. There are other threads and forums where you can vent your spleen. > [@yornmine](#): > > True, the hysterical left insists that only conservatives do. **yornmine** , you are banned. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930/167 "2017-06-14T22:17:48Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > No. > Not even remotely so. Unless perhaps all Soviet-bloc rifles are the same rifle? No… that’s not so, either. > > THIS is true. Sorry, I’ve seen what looks like an AK identified as an SKS. More than once. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930/168 "2017-06-14T22:25:47Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > Proximity (or lack thereof) and intervening objects can seriously change the nature of firearms reports. Some of those were very definately rifle shots, which have a different sound to them than your typical pistol shot. > Or .223 - or any of the intermidiate calibers. Nothing says left wing radical quite like an AK-47 though. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930/169 "2017-06-14T22:30:00Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Sorry, I’ve seen what looks like an AK identified as an SKS. More than once. My bad. OK, fair enough - News media outlets frequently get that wrong. More often wrong, indeed, than right. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930/170 "2017-06-14T22:32:20Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > OK, fair enough - News media outlets frequently get that wrong. More often wrong, indeed, than right. Also gun sale sites. Which is why I thought it was legit. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930/171 "2017-06-14T22:35:38Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > OK, fair enough - News media outlets frequently get that wrong. More often wrong, indeed, than right. Did you see the video [Okrahoma posted back in post #87](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20277590&postcount=87), about the “firearms expert” that didn’t understand what “semi-automatic” means? So wrong it’s funny, in a sad sort of way. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930/172 "2017-06-14T22:39:11Z")
What I find mildly odd is the age of the shooter: 66. I really have to wonder what forces there were in his life that led him to this at that age. ETA: Facebook news feed claims that Scalise is in “critical condition”. Has he taken a big turn for the worse? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930/173 "2017-06-14T22:42:18Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > What I find mildly odd is the age of the shooter: 66. I really have to wonder what forces there were in his life that led him to this at that age. There was an article on CNN I was reading about the shooter. I guess this isn’t the first altercation he’s been in, and it seems he’s had control issues for a while. This isn’t the first time he discharged a firearm at someone either (though he missed…with a shot gun…the last guy). He’s also been growing more strident as things, as he saw them, spun more and more out of control wrt Trump and the Repubican’s, which he saw as worse than Nazi’s. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930/174 "2017-06-14T22:47:12Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Also gun sale sites. Which is why I thought it was legit. Yeah, there are some real idiots on the ‘Pro’ side, too. 😛 > [@XT](#): > > Nothing says left wing radical quite like an AK-47 though. 😉 Just say “Radical, Dude!” 😉 Trust me, more than a few boneheads of the alternate persuasion swear by the old communist-bloc weapon, too. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Did you see the video [Okrahoma posted back in post #87](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20277590&postcount=87), about the “firearms expert” that didn’t understand what “semi-automatic” means? So wrong it’s funny, in a sad sort of way. Won’t run at work, but I caught the gist from context. Common, and would be funny, if it weren’t so sad. But - Since we’re talking about the rifle; presuming the FBI and media have correctly identified the rifle as an SKS-type (Chinese versions have a different designation - “Type 56 Carbine” - but are essentialy the same rifle), then it a fortunate choice - They’re not terribly accurate, they generally don’t have optics, and even if you’ve got one with an after-market modification to allow replacable magazines, they’re awkward to reload. As-designed, they are fed from stripper clips, which is slow and clumsy compared to, say, an AK magazine change. Choice of weapon probably accounts - at least partially - for the poor marksmanship. Also, the shooter doesn’t seem to be the kind of person to have dilligently polished his skills, further degrading accuracy. The downside is that the 7.62x39 cartridge is a capable intermdiate cartridge. IF this was, as I suspect, a “Grand Gesture” suicide, he may not have even intended to actually kill anyone - merely create a situation wherein he could be certain to recieve lethal return fire. Everyone he hit, excepting the one police officer, took hits to their lower bodies. Either that, or he was a _REMARKABLY_ bad shot, even considering the handicaps. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930/175 "2017-06-14T22:58:57Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Facebook news feed claims that Scalise is in “critical condition”. Has he taken a big turn for the worse? [This](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/update-steve-scalise-condition) is the latest word I’ve seen on the subject of Scalise’s status. > [@](#): > > Rep. Scalise was critically injured and remains in critical condition. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930/176 "2017-06-14T22:59:44Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > Please share where you’re seeing that GOP reps helped take out the shooter. Everything I’ve read indicates that Capital and local police took him out. I’m not seeing anything “James Bond” about hiding in the dugout, which is of course the normal “flight” response in this type of situation. By drawing fire? In the case of Scalise, by being high-ranking enough to be accompanied by a security detail? Look, yes, the capitol police deserve the most credit for the apprehension of the terrorist. But in a situation like this where you see a terrorist attempting mass murder against a bunch of unarmed civilians, the civilians are the good guys, even if I happen to disagree with some of their political positions. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930/177 "2017-06-14T23:01:21Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > IF this was, as I suspect, a “Grand Gesture” suicide, he may not have even intended to actually kill anyone - merely create a situation wherein he could be certain to recieve lethal return fire. Everyone he hit, excepting the one police officer, took hits to their lower bodies. Either that, or he was a _REMARKABLY_ bad shot, even considering the handicaps. I correct myself - It now seems that _everyone_ hit, was hit below the waist. Yeah, dark humor there. But now I seriously wonder if he actually intended to kill anyone, as opposed to ‘just’ wounding them. No way we’ll ever know, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930/178 "2017-06-14T23:01:23Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > IF this was, as I suspect, a “Grand Gesture” suicide, he may not have even intended to actually kill anyone - merely create a situation wherein he could be certain to recieve lethal return fire. Everyone he hit, excepting the one police officer, took hits to their lower bodies. Either that, or he was a _REMARKABLY_ bad shot, even considering the handicaps. This is an interesting theory. I was just assuming he was a terrible shot. Could you explain what you mean by “grand gesture” a tad more? ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930/179 "2017-06-14T23:14:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This is an interesting theory. I was just assuming he was a terrible shot. Could you explain what you mean by “grand gesture” a tad more? It’s not unknown for someone in desperate mental condition to commit ‘suicide by cop.’ That is, to create a situation where the police will kill them, thus either taking the responsbility for the act that the subject can’t, or won’t do, or obviating the sin of suicide. After all, they didn’t pull the trigger, did they? Another thing that some suicides will do is to kill themselves in some spectacular fashion, such as diving off a famous landmark. One last bid for fame, however fleeting. From what we believe we know of the alleged shooter, he was living out of his car and using the local YMCA for sanitary needs for weeks before the shooting. He was an angry person, one whom had lost his business recently, and one whom had a serious political axe to grind. From there to “I’ll show them!” isn’t a large stretch. But - killing another human being is actually a lot more difficult, psychologically, than many folks realize. Even an angry man might decide it’s enough to “make them suffer” whilst achieving suicide-by-cop. Or, I could be talking entirely out my butt. This is all speculative - We’re almost certainly never going to know for sure. _Edit_: Or maybe he just had an _unusually_ crappy SKS. Or ‘buck fever’ and was just jerking the trigger all over the place. Who knows? ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930/180 "2017-06-14T23:22:23Z")
Try this instead. The guy had the intention of shooting up a large collection of Republican Congressmen and women. He asked one of the Reps leaving whether it was Repubs or Dems who were mostly there. He picks—whether intentionally or not—a killing ground with limited egress points, open sight lines, and a few pieces of cover, that he may have intended to herd his victims into. And he uses a rifle. EDIT: Oh, and he had two months of living in a van by the river in DC to pick a suitable target. Odds this guy tried to show up at/near Trump and got scared off by the overt security? All goes well, until the only two people there with guns (because everyone’s going to work in D.C. afterwards, and D.C. frowns heavily on the law-abiding carrying guns. Oh, and IT’S A BASEBALL PRACTICE.) start shooting back. This sucks, from his perspective. His plan goes out the window and he starts looking for cover, like so many mall and school shooters do when they start to receive armed resistance. Plus, his aim goes out the window. Those cops saved a bunch of Congressional lives in those two dugouts and on the field. In the four minutes before Alexandria PD showed up, he easily could have wounded and killed pretty much everyone inside that diamond. No, if this was a suicide by cop, I’d expect pistol, not rifle. Easier to conceal until you get right next to the cops. I’d expect lots of gunfire aimed at no one. Not COM hits on the first few victims. I’d expect actual visible cops in the area to plunk him, and news cameras near by. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-gunshots-in-alexandria-virginia-at-the-congressional-baseball-practice/788930.md?page=10)