Multiple Personality Disorder

I am not a multiple, but I play one on TV. (or RPG"S rather)

Seriously , my best friend is a multiple, and I have known two other multiples for short periods of times. I do consider this to be an extraordinary number of multiples for me to have known based on how rare I believe the condition to be. Based upon my experience with these individuals, I have not the slightest doubt that the condition is real.

My friend had enormous difficulties for a long time, but now does quite well. Integration is not a goal for her, and her multiples function as quite an effective internal family. When people talk about “your inner child” she has a slightly different take on the matter, as she has inner children. In fact, it gets on her nerves sometimes when she hear a song such as “row row row your boat” as her "littles”, or very young alters, will begin singing much like a song you can’t get out of you head, but in distinct voices and singing in a round.

As to the possibility of faking, I just don’t see it. For a while she had a really hard time of it. When her husband would come home and find her in the closet, unable to speak in full sentences because she had reverted to one of the littles, with her young children not being taken care of it was a real concern that she might not be able to keep her children. This is not something she would intentionally have subjected herself to. Fortunately she did improve.

I’ve just got to say this has got to be the most fascinating thread I’ve seen so far on the SDMB.

My only knowledge of MPD/DID to date has been the “Sybil” film, and I had no idea there are people living peacefully with this condition in their own, or their partners’, lives. Wow!

Thank you to each and every one of you who has posted your experiences … I feel greatly enriched for “meeting” you all.

Julie

When I first read Cecil’s comments on MPD I was upset because his apparent status as an authority figure no doubt convinced the vast majority of readers that MPD/DID doesn’t exist. I am happy though to see that the threads have come closer to a reasonable understanding that DID does exist if only rarely. Probably the worst part about having DID is that at least in my case therapy is useless since certain alters are always able to distract the doctor with discussions of science and medicine or other interesting topics. This prevent anything from being solved. As far as proof of actual separate alters existing within one mind, I can only offer two personal examples. In the mid 90s I was in he habit of cutting messages in my chest with a razor blade. While this resulted in a lot of blood it never hurt at any point as it healed. When I went to therapy the next time the doctor asked who I was cutting and I then realized that it was the four year old who never comes out. The other one is how I’m able to keep my most violent alter under control. He apparently doesn’t hold his liquer well so when I get home from work I drink anywhere from eight to twelve drinks and then go to sleep. I’ve never had a hang-over and my regular physical checkups show no ill affects. I know this isn’t scientific proof but it just many of the examples of actual physical disconnect between alters.

If you are serious about this you really need some serious intervention. If you have violent and/or self destructive tendencies this severe, then you need to be in a safe therepetic environment until you can develop a more healthy way of dealing with this. Regardless of how many Alters you have, they all share the same body. Alcohol affects the body. Even if you show no ill effects currently, you will eventually, and trust me, you do not want to have to deal with you four year old (for example) alter while you are having DTs

I am serious but just so you know I’ve been happily married for almost eighteen years, have two kids, and a well paying job as a computer engineer. I will say that - and I pause to create a spoiler for athiests - I believe in God and that helps keep things under control. As far as the affects of alcohol you may be right and I’m always looking for an alternative but will stick with what works for now. As far as therapy, because of the conventional wisdom as presented by Cecil it is virtually impossible to find a competent doctor who is willing and capable of treating any form of DID. While it may be true that the days of mental hospitals as concentration camps are gone until the conventional wisdom as taught by Cecil changes we will survive on our own.

  1. My philosophy: There are 6,000,000,000 people on this planet. At any given time on any given day the odds are that someone is doing anything that you would care to imagine.

  2. It is possible to create alternate “personalities” in order to defeat lie-detectors.

3a. Stripe7: There IS a software partition in the brain: it’s between the concious and non-concious minds.
3b. Your non-concious mind is capable of (and responsible for) creating any scenario you can imagine (including realistic dreams of flying and nightmares). A damaged or disturbed non-councious mind can therefore create various “personalities” which appear in the concious and interact with the outside world. It’s the same process by which you like/dislike someone at first sight: your non-concious dumps the reaction up into your concious and you react accordingly.

  1. Atara: eye-colour shifts can be a function of mood (and just plain old lighting) and are therefore not necessarily indicative of multiple personalities. But it could be. Or not. :slight_smile:

5a. Marley23: No question is stupid. There are many paths to the top of the mountain.
5b. “Why would someone with these disorders refuse to be treated?” I diagnose that you have no obvious, serious “disorders”. :slight_smile: In the olden days (e.g. up to the 90s), homosexuality was a diagnosed disorder with various treatments including psychology, chemical castration, electro-shock therapy and brainwashing (think “A clockwork orange”). All this for a “disorder” that is just a different flavour of human sexuality. Can you imagine what the blood-letters might do to people with MP? Chemical sedation, brain dissection, lobotomies, straight-jackets, rubber rooms… just what a mentally-challenged person would look forward to. :}

“5b. “Why would someone with these disorders refuse to be treated?” I diagnose that you have no obvious, serious “disorders”. In the olden days (e.g. up to the 90s), homosexuality was a diagnosed disorder with various treatments including psychology, chemical castration, electro-shock therapy and brainwashing (think “A clockwork orange”). All this for a “disorder” that is just a different flavour of human sexuality”

I’m not sure who should be more offended, homosexuals or people with DID. To suggest that DID is anything like homosexuality is an insult to both groups. I suggest reading any of the books by Neurologist Oliver Sacks as you will be less likely to discredit DID after seeing conditions of the mind even more extreme. Most of the cases he relates could not have been patient faking or reacting to his subliminal suggestions.

That being said even though I have been diagnosed with DID I don’t ever want it to becomes an acceptable part of life as homosexuality has become. Regardless of the fact that I’ve resigned myself to surviving on my own due to the current opinions, sometime in the future there may be easier and more effective therapies to treat the disorder.

Why don’t you want to accept it? There are ways to learn to live with the other persons who share your body. Once my partners’ system learned to be co-conscious, they were really glad and grateful to be multiple, and they see it as a definite advantage.

The numbers are few, but there are more and more therapists who, instead of trying to integrate the system, try to help the system learn to function effectively together.

atara

These personalities - or members of the “system” or “household” - that join the multiple later (one person in this thread described a “little” that was a relatively new addition)… where do these personalities come from? What do they think or say about their own histories?

woo… there are a lot of different answers to that depending on who is sharing their own history. i’ve heard from people (in other systems) who talk about having been reincarnated together into one body, or having people who are “walk-ins” - spirits or souls from outside who joined the system for another million different reasons - or people splitting off during abuse, or for a lot of personal reasons, or being born with lots of people there already and being able to remember each other’s presence before any abuse happened (or without any abuse happening), or, well, a lot of things.

our therapist used to suggest that we write an autobiography and we’d just stare at her and splutter that that would be IMPOSSIBLE since we could barely sort out who we each were long enough to know which memories were whose. we do each have our own histories and perspectives and experiences, and someday we might be able to articulate those better! a lot of different multiple systems include personal histories like that on their websites; i’d suggest looking around some of these:

If this is the case, then in what sense can you be said to be different personalities? It seems to me that if the personalities are so closely intertwined that you can’t figure out who’s who, then it’s just one personality.

we could figure out who was who, we just didn’t have good enough boundaries to know which memories belonged to who. just as, if two people in a relationship have such bad boundaries that they stop distinguishing whose emotions and experiences are whose, they are still two people.

And you would prove the truth of this assertion in what way, exactly?

Oh, I know where to start. There must be a scientific definition of personality and a way to test (in a replicatable way) for the existance of one; this must be the foundation for your assertion.

Could you please give me a pointer to that research? I don’t seem to have the citation handy.

You may find this site to be of personal utility…

http://isnt.autistics.org/

I’ve never heard of this happening. Has anyone else here heard of it?

well, we always find these sorts of discussions interesting. (and frustrating, sometimes, too.)

frustrating mainly because we are a multiple system, so the existence of multiplicity is pretty much a given for us. we’ve spent a lot of time in therapy, though we’re not there now; we are generally co-conscious and cooperative, though we haven’t always been; people in our system generally don’t show up and take over at inappropriate times, though it’s happened in the past. we’ve never been hypnotized (in fact, despite the myth that multiples are especially EASY to hypnotize, we’re too hypervigilant in general to allow it), and our memories have come out just on their own, through discussion or just through time, getting to know each other, being interesting (i guess is a word to use) in what each of us are carrying.

we’ve spent a lot of years working things out between us. right now we’re studying at university, but in past years we’ve also held down very stressful and demanding jobs, and we’ve at times been unable to work at all. our system is set up for the most part so that only people who know us well (and of course know about the multiplicity) really know when other people are around. we’ve also taken care over the years to establish a reputation as “eccentric” - it’s amazing what people overlook or find “rational” reasons for.

on the outside, our life doesn’t look that fantastical or even all that amazingly interesting. we’d be happy to answer questions if anyone has them, but i think it has to be taken as given that we don’t have any answers that will astound, amaze, and convince anyone who’s decided already that people like us simply can’t exist.

so. yeah.

We, the firewheel collective personalties, are quite capable of creating an impression of acceptable normalcy if we need to.

If we don’t choose to explain ourselves as being plural, there is really no reason to suspect we are - and has been pointed out, the ability of most people to overlook things that don’t fit their mental picture of how things should be is nearly infinite.

But for us it’s a conscious choice to be out, just to counter the impression created by the medical model people that we are all helpless puddles of goo.

And since some of us do some things better than others, it makes sense for us to do it that way. Given that, it just seems simpler to let people know that is what is going on, so we don’t have to think about whether People Might Be Wondering About Us.

As person gifted or cursed (depending on the day) with two differences that interact with and compensate for each other (multiplicity and Asperger’s), I have difficulty imaging how one could function as an individual entity and a social being dependant on external people for self-validation.

I’m not being snotty, it’s a complete failure to comprehend the how it could work.

Clearly it does - but I simply don’t get it. Probably that’s mutual.

But we accept that there’s more than one way to arrive at a workable form of sanity. We accept that we don’t have to understand how it works in order for it to work. This seems to be a difficult leap for some folks.

Anyway, all drama aside, our Asperger’s is far more likely to have relevant impact on our communications than being multi is. As far as we can tell, it’s multiplicity that helps us compensate for being on the autistic spectrum. Except when it’s the other way around.

But at the end of the day, someone either makes sense or they don’t. And I mean about things that matter, like whether the television will fit Through the door or how much salt to add to the soup; real stuff that matters beyond being a Fascinating Idea That Serves As An Excuse To Buy A Second Pitcher Of Beer.

And that’s what this is, right up there with arguments over Pre and post-tribulation eschatology, the existence of god and the Designated Hitter Rule.

To put this all in the context of significance it truly deserves, we were once contacted by Sally Jessie’s producer. The conversation ended at the point the creature learned there was no visible seizures or speaking in tongues as we switched. I think there was some idea of putting us on stage with The Amazing Randi and Colin Ross or some-such nonsense.

And that’s the sort of source most folks rely on for “objective information” on anything slightly outside of what they touchingly think of as “normal.”

In my whole life, I’ve never actually met anyone that was truly “normal.” For the most part, the fact they were not deeply worried other people would find out.

Well, I guess I’m lucky, 'cause while I can fool some of the people some of the time, sometimes I just can’t fool anyone, even ourselves - and anyway you look at it, its WAY too much work.

I’ve had a lot fewer stress-related illnesses since I stopped worrying about stupid stuff like that; I commend it to everyone, whatever wetware they happen to run. If forced to put a name to it, I call it “growing up.”

As it happens, I have no formal diagnosis - any more than I need a diagnosis to tell me that we are usually right-handed. The sole meaningful reason we have for considering ourselves multiple is that when we do, things work better. And the only reason we think about how we think is because it’s a perfectible process.

One which more people should pursue, In My Not Terribly Humble Opinion. I promise, your brain will not explode, nor is being possessed by demons a terribly common side effect. Unless you watch the 700 club a lot. The power of suggestion is a terrible, terrible thing. :->

I don’t know how I’d prove plurality is not a delusion, any more than I can figure out how I’d prove the opposite - I consider it a useful model. Ultimately, if it is a delusion, so what?

And if you are deluded that you are a singleton, when you are “really” many people really good at pretending - so what?

If the idea that I use a different internal model than you screws with your reality so much that you have to waste precious photons “debunking” me and significant portions of your life getting lots of people to agree with you on the point, well, I suggest that the real problem doesn’t reside within this here bone box!

Your humble Host;
Bob King;
Looking at life sideways at Graphictruth.com

Careful. It’s a slippery slope. :smiley:

Um. Medicating multies can be tricky and this is actually very typical. Please note that the man cited a number of drinks that should damn near hospitalize him and should CERTAINLY show debilitating effects.

But if we can take his word for it, there are none.

And this is common - the effects of ANY drug will vary wildly due to who is out, and the system in general. I’ve never seen ANY satisfactory explaination about this, but it’s one reason why it’s pretty darned important for multis to be particularly careful AND self-directed in their medications.

For myself, I get thereputic effects from antidepressants at a level the PDR suggests for children. And I weigh nearly 160.

Of course, there are more than a few children herein…

This is one of those areas where it seems like one is straying into a Twilight Zone episode. If you aren’t multi, well, I can understand being skeptical. So was I - and I remain so - but nonetheless, this and many other oddities make me expect to run into the shade of Robert Stack at any moment.

Apparent changes in hair and eye color are commonly reported. I swear to God, my wife changes her apparent height. I know it’s apparent height, as the first reflex is to pick physical reference points. Explain that one for me.

I mean, I’m sure there IS an explaination, but it’s a good trick, however they do it. Yes, we married another multiple. Who else would put up with us? :smiley:

She reports the same sort of thing about us. And sometimes I’ll catch sight of one of us in the mirror, peeking out as it were. It’s MOSTLY subtle facial expression, posture and the like - but of course, now that I’ve tried to do it in front of a mirror, all I can report is a mild headache after cycling thru half a dozen different people - along with some really grumpy comments about the idiocy of attepting to use the scientific method to evaluate utterly subjective data.

This body is multiple.

Here is our collective take.

Those who believe in MPd/DID need no convincing. They have seen too many things to deny it’s existence.
Those who don’t believe and/or haven’t seen the truth. haven’t seen for themselves the VAST undeniable differences in alters, nothing and no amount of data or proof will convince them.

As for faking. TWhile it is acknowledged that MPD for us was yes a life saver, it is NOT something thiat is fun. Sure it has it’s funner moments, and things, but honestly who would want to deal with all the issues that come with it? Leading a life of discontinuty. having big chunks of missing time, friends you don’t know you have, converstations you didn’thave, alters/inners being mean to your partner?
Then there’s all the flashbacks and body memorires, all the TERRIFIED littles who believe the abuse is still happening.

I am sure that there are people who do fake it. I don’t deny that. And those people create soo many additional problems for those of us who are truly multiple. However if you watch day in day out, those who are acting, when faced with real life stress situationws, forget to keepp the facade going. A true multiple in the face of overwhelming stress, will leave you with no doublt as to the truth, cuz the rapid switching is undieniable.

The nature of multiplicity is denial, the nature of it, is to create what ever is needed in order to survive the horror. multiples do not carry around the dsm_IV so that they can look and be sure to become a proper multiple. The nature of it is to keep secret the abuse, so keeping the alters secret from the ‘host’ is often done. When the denial is not needed, neither is the multiplicity. They go together existing together.

There are soo many people in sociaety who choose to deny, and not believe who wants to believe in child abuse? who wants to believe that a father, grandfather, uncle, doctor, lawyer, etc. could/would do such horrible things to nessecitate the creation of multilplicity? ansswer NOBODY. It is an issue that by it’s nature, society wants to stay in the dark, stay ignorant. It’s easier for most peoplle to deny it, than to face what what it would mean if it wa a true disorder.
We (the inhabitants) of this body know our truth and hontestly that is all that matters. The belief of those closeest to us.
PLease exuse any disjointed nature of this. More than one inner/alter added there 2 sense.

~Noonestrawberri

My personal take is this; one either has the capacity to be multiple or not - very likely it’s a spectrum. But being able to dissociate under stress is very pro-survival. One of my favorite examples is having to deal with things that would ordinarily make you puke uncontrollably or run screaming.

One thing that makes us want to change the channel instantly is when a plot is driven by some muffin that is in a life or death situation and cannot or will not dissociate enough to cope - for one tedious example, we have to jump off that cliff into the water in order to avoid the deadly threat that will get us in thirty seconds - have your moment of drama LATER!

Or for a real example;
“Huston, we have a problem,” instead of the more dramatic, “OMYGOD, WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!”

(Actually, most people do dissociate in life/death situations; we culturally ASSUME panic to be normal, but in every case where panic would have been expected by screenwriters and desk-fronted thinkers, no panic at all has been reported.

Compare “Towering Inferno” with the very real events of 9/ll - panic did not occur. People made pretty darn good choices and as a result, far more people survived than anyone would have thought possible. But at a very high price, in terms of delayed effects.

Multiples can do that normally, and do it for years without breakdown, given that their “operating system” allows it to occur in a functional way.

You will find multiples thought professions where this sort of thing comes up all the time; ER wards, EMT’s, even on the police force.

That’s because our way of dealing with stress is more adaptive to the need - we do stress out, but we can put it off until later. And we can cycle to relieve stress during the day; it’s a shared effort.

But nonetheless, everyone has a limit, and in childhood, if we are abused that can easily happen. That tends to disorder us (often in a very literal sense) in ways that are quite different from singletons. And since the medical model folk only see disordered multiples they have unfortunately leaped to the conclusion that the multiplicity IS the problem.

Systems such as ours should be a counter-example to that; we have been subject to abuse, and it’s certainly affected us, but on the whole it seems most likely that are multiplicity became explicit to deal with our also being on the Autistic spectrum.

We test out as being pretty classically Asperger’s Syndrome - no official dx, don’t have a need for one. But there are many sources for the diagnostic criteria, and several different angles to look at it; it’s pretty clear that is what we are, as closely as anyone could peg it.

THAT affects us far more than multiplicity, and our usual reasons for switching have to do with aspy stuff these days.

Sure, multiples can paddle up De Nile farther than most folks; none of us are immune to such things, and our denial can be expressed in pretty odd ways - at least compared to Norm, the Average Person.

But the way we do it isn’t the issue; the issue is that we have something to deny.

Now, if I were a sociologist or something of that sort, I’d be keeping this idea for myself until I got the relevant grants; but since I’m not and statistical analysis makes my teeth itch, I’ll throw it out.

There are a number of conditions that are exploding, indeed, have increased, possibly exponentially in their diagnosis over the last thirty years. Multiplicity is one of them; so are autistic-spectrum disorders, ADD and ADHD come to mind; I’m guessing the same is true of Borderline Personality Disorder and a few other things.

With most of those things, once you start talking about it, there is a degree of skepticism from the rest of the world; why is it only happening in the United States? Is it real, or is it a phenomenon of the diagnostic process?

The latter may be true to an extent; our insurance system is to blame for much of it in some ways, but to a greater extent, my gut tells me that it’s a byproduct of stress.

And I should point out that while Alvin Toffler did not predict this exact situation in Future Shock, to the best of my recollection, he did indeed predict that Stuff Would Hit The Fan, and I believe he predicted a rise in mental disorders and stress-related physical conditons.

The US is particularly affected because of a number of cultural conditions and of late, hugely increased pressure on individuals.

This is compounded with a whole number of things that amount to a fog of shared background anxiety; access to medical care, worries about finances in a climate of regulation and provision that requires that everyone be their own CPA, fears of war and terrorism, the complete loss of job security across the board - most people are far, far more stressed than their parents.

Other countries have done a far better job of dealing with these collective stresses and fears, but here, that’s “Socialism” and so it’s rejected, or hideously over-complicated in the name of “privatization.”

I’m sure everyone can think of other examples; one only has to listen to talk radio to get a feel for the visceral fears that lurk in Middle America.

Now, couple that with another phenomenon that is the indirect result of two world wars; Urban concentration and a huge increase in college education.

That’s a good thing, of course; but what it does is concentrate all the people who can pass an entrance exam in situations where they will meet, fall in lust and breed. :slight_smile: People that in other situations would probably never meet someone quite as smart as they are fall in happy geek love and breed 2.5 little geeks.

This, and other concentration patterns have resulted in Asperger’s having the alternate name of Silicon Valley Syndrome.

So aside from the social stresses, we have been breeding for many of these traits for at least two generations. Of COURSE there’s an explosion!

My wife has a great little saying; “Different does not mean broken.”

I know that over my lifetime, 80% of my problems were not internal; for the most part, I worked just fine. It was the reaction of other people to my differences that was the problem.

I know a lot of folks will be horrified at the idea that conformity is not a sustainable ideal. There are folks that think we should all look, talk and think exactly alike, and as that’s sort of a cultural Meme here in the land of supposed sacred individuality, it’s not publicly recognized as being dysfunctional.

But it is; since things that make you treat other folks in appalling ways for reasons that don’t bear up under rational examination are, by definition, nuts.

Now there’s some denial for you.