# Multiple Shootings At Fort Hood **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 5, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472 "2009-11-05T21:09:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/181 "2009-11-06T20:05:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > According to CNN he had a conversation with a store clerk prior to the shooting and his conflict was not going into a war zone, his conflict was with killing Muslims. I wonder how he knew he wasn’t killing Muslims when he opened fire at the Soldier Readiness Center. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/182 "2009-11-06T20:08:49Z")
Kay Bailey Hutchenson said he wasn’t firing randomly, but was specifically targeting people he knew. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/183 "2009-11-06T20:11:19Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Don’t wish too hard. John Allen Muhammad has an execution date set for four days from now - and in all of this time nobody has received any clear explanation for his actions. And if you did get an explanation, it might not make much sense. Crazy people do things for reasons that are, well, crazy. I think it might be more disturbing if the reason did make sense. If there’s an explanation that makes sense to you, that means you can understand why someone might think doing something like this was a good idea. That’s too close to thinking “there’s a situation in which I might do something like this” for comfort. I don’t like to think of myself as someone who could do a thing like this. The car-vandalism angle made me think along those lines, actually. My car was broken into in 2004. When I found out, I was very angry at the person who did it (I did not and do not know who it was). I wanted something terrible to happen to that person. I think I would have been even more upset if I had thought my car was targeted because of my religion (which it wasn’t, but this guy’s was). ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/184 "2009-11-06T20:15:49Z")
Is this the right thread to point out that the Orlando shooter has an obviously Christian name? Or should I take it to the other one? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/185 "2009-11-06T20:15:59Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > You didn’t read this right, and I am correct, not incorrect. The noun was “killers” and the modifier was “non-Islamist-motivated.” And the statement is essentially 100% true. Of the population of killers, some are Islamist-motivated, some non-Islamist-motivated. The former group are \ likely to launch a rampage with Allahu Akhbar. The latter sub-group of killers are \ likely to do so. This is still an unsubstantiated assertion. You still don’t know he wasn’t just mentally ill. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/186 "2009-11-06T20:26:24Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Don’t wish too hard. John Allen Muhammad has an execution date set for four days from now - and in all of this time nobody has received any clear explanation for his actions. And Hasan is in a coma, so we don’t know when or if he could give any answers. > [@Magiver](#): > > According to CNN he had a conversation with a store clerk prior to the shooting and his conflict was not going into a war zone, his conflict was with killing Muslims. I hadn’t heard that. And **Contrapuntal** , stop making sense. You’ll confuse the crazy guy. EDIT: I stand by the wisecrack, even if it is superceded by Sen. Hutchison’s comments. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/187 "2009-11-06T20:29:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And **Contrapuntal** , stop making sense. You’ll confuse the crazy guy. EDIT: I stand by the wisecrack, even if it is superceded by Sen. Hutchison’s comments. Dammit! Tipped my hand. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/188 "2009-11-06T20:56:28Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Not evidence, no. And the Takbir is not a “Jihad cry.” It’s used by all practicing Muslims in practically all manner of religious and daily life. True, the words “God is great” are used by Muslims in all manner of religious and daily life. But when yelled before slaughtering innocent people it is a [battle cry](http://www.examiner.com/x-14795-Page-One-Examiner~y2009m11d6-Allahu-Akbar-who-says-it-and-why). There are no other words to describe it. In this instance, his dislike at the idea that he might kill Muslims led to a massacre of soldiers from his own army and it was led off by a battle cry. It was driven by his religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/189 "2009-11-06T20:59:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > In this instance, his dislike at the idea that he might kill Muslims led to a massacre of soldiers from his own army and it was led off by a battle cry. It was driven by his religious beliefs. Do you have military experience? I don’t. If you do, what do you suppose would be the likelihood of a psychiatrist having to fire a weapon? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/190 "2009-11-06T21:18:05Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Do you have military experience? I don’t. If you do, what do you suppose would be the likelihood of a psychiatrist having to fire a weapon? Hmm. Doesn’t the Geneva Convention, or some international “rule of war,” affirmatively prohibit medical personnel from taking on any combatant role? A sound policy as otherwise you’d have the enemy taking potshots at medics. > **[Non-combatant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-combatant)** > > In the law of war and international humanitarian law, a non-combatant is a person who is not taking a direct part in hostilities. This includes civilians; people such as combat medics and military chaplains, who are members of the belligerent armed forces but are protected because of their specific duties; combatants who are hors de combat; and neutral persons, such as peacekeepers, who are not involved in fighting for one of the belligerents involved in a war. This particular status was firs Un... ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/191 "2009-11-06T21:19:25Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Do you have military experience? I don’t. If you do, what do you suppose would be the likelihood of a psychiatrist having to fire a weapon? I don’t know the details, but it seems likely that someone deploying to a combat zone would have to qualify or requalify in small arms. That’s how it was in the Navy, and ISTM that the Army would be more stringent in enforcing this basic rule. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/192 "2009-11-06T21:22:09Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > I don’t know the details, but it seems likely that someone deploying to a combat zone would have to qualify or requalify in small arms. That’s how it was in the Navy, and ISTM that the Army would be more stringent in enforcing this basic rule. Even so, when would he have the opportunity or reason to kill an enemy combatant? I guess my question really is : How many Army psychiatrists have killed a Muslim while deployed in Afghanistan? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/193 "2009-11-06T21:25:04Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Hmm. Doesn’t the Geneva Convention, or some international “rule of war,” affirmatively prohibit medical personnel from taking on any combatant role? A sound policy as otherwise you’d have the enemy taking potshots at medics. > > [Non-combatant - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-combatant) Most field medics carry small arms for defensive purposes. They cannot be used to mount an offense - this would strip them of those protections that you mention. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/194 "2009-11-06T21:26:00Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Do you have military experience? I don’t. If you do, what do you suppose would be the likelihood of a psychiatrist having to fire a weapon? I can answer that…very very low. Its not like he was going to be kicking in doors or going on patrols. I’d have a better chance of that, and in particular MOS the chances of it would be low. I think this man may have just snapped and that his motivation was not entirely religious in nature. But thats just an opinion. None of know for sure at this time. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/195 "2009-11-06T21:44:18Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Do you have military experience? I don’t. If you do, what do you suppose would be the likelihood of a psychiatrist having to fire a weapon? The premise is not my conjecture, this is what CNN reported as a conversation between the shooter and a Muslim store clerk. There are other reports about conversations he had regarding his disapproval of the war. If I were to add conjecture, I would say that he saw his deployment as a more active role in the war, even though he’s just moving to a different location to practice his trade. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/196 "2009-11-06T21:56:40Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Not evidence, no. And the Takbir is not a “Jihad cry.” It’s used by all practicing Muslims in practically all manner of religious and daily life. When uttered before shooting dozens of people, or blowing yourself up on a bus, it’s a Jihad cry. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Nobody ever tries this kind of sweeping religious blame after Christian acts of violence or terrorism. Probably because there are a lot fewer Christian terrorists than Muslim ones. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/197 "2009-11-06T22:04:36Z")
I didn’t properly link the CNN report before. [Fort Hood Suspect on Store Camera](http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/06/fort.hood.suspect/index.html). It’s an interesting report because CNN went to the effort of getting an Arabic translator to talk to the clerk in case anything was missed in translation. According to the clerk Maj. Hasan did not speak Arabic well enough to carry on a conversation (even though the clerk tried to engage him, so most of the conversations were in English). What CNN never clarified is whether he normally wore Islamic clothing or if this was something new to him on the day of the shooting. It’s been stated that he often went to the Mosque in his military uniform. His former neighbors said he kept a Muslim prayer on his apartment door and the clerk said he attended Friday prayers regularly so it’s safe to say he was devout in his practices. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/198 "2009-11-06T22:20:29Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Even so, when would he have the opportunity or reason to kill an enemy combatant? I presume he is concerned about being part of and assisting a group killing Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/199 "2009-11-06T22:24:31Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I presume he is concerned about being part of and assisting a group killing Muslims. That makes sense to me, in a way. What doesn’t make sense is having joined the U.S. military if susceptible to those or other pacifistic views. The Army is not a humanitarian endeavor. And no one ever said individual soldiers got to pick their enemies. And . . . I can’t readily think of any time in the past twenty years (including whenever he signed up) that the U.S. has not been in outright conflict with, or dispatching periodic missiles or no-fly enforcers to, one or more Muslim states/entities. Who was he thinking we were equipping an army to fight, Soviets? Dumbass, if he didn’t foresee a high likelihood of facing off with his brehtren. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/200 "2009-11-06T22:35:23Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > When uttered before shooting dozens of people, or blowing yourself up on a bus, it’s a Jihad cry. No, it’s just a normal prayer. > [@](#): > > Probably because there are a lot fewer Christian terrorists than Muslim ones. Ireland. Bosnia. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472.md?page=11)