# Multiple Shootings At Fort Hood **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 5, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472 "2009-11-05T21:09:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/221 "2009-11-08T03:51:35Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Dude, unless things have changed drastically very recently you don’t even qualify for Airborne school. Last I heard you had to be under 36, pass an Airborne physical and be able to pass a PT test using the 17-21 year old standards. Doesn’t seem like you qualify at all. No way to pressure you into going somewhere they won’t let you go to anyway. I don’t know the criteria you’re going from, because you may have gone to Airborne school some years ago. But currently as far as the Army is concerned I am qualified to go to Airborne school as long as I can pass the physical. Which is the problem on both sides. The doctor that gave me my initial airborne physical told me flat out I’d be crazy to do it even if I squeaked past the standards established. Not because she thought AB was stupid, but because, to be honest I would be putting myself in a risk situation healthwise. And you know what, thats my biggest reason or not wanting to do it. 20 years ago, maybe 10, I may not have liked it but I don’t wuss out on things. Now…I have what, a bit over 5 years until 50? I’ve already got enough health problems which thankfully haven’t crippled me in some way…20 years in…why would I want to do this now. I could derail the thread by going on about how it was stupid or the army to send me here in the first place, but it would get long. The Branch manager should have looked at my records and saw that “This guy is close to retirement, and he’s kinda old. Plus he just (at the time I got my orders) had fucking surgery. I need to fill this lot at Bragg, but this guy shouldn’t go. I can send him to the pentagon (where he’s worked before) or ARICOM or EUCOM where he has experience.”. This is something that has always bugged me since I was a private. The Army is really bad about placing people sometimes. But being a former recruiter I understand how it works. > [@](#): > > Most army bases used to be open. Anyone could drive right on. That was the case with Fort Hood when I was stationed there many years ago. After 911 all became closed bases. It was more economical to use some combination of security personnel and federal law enforcement as well as MPs. Remember that MPs have a wartime mission that they have to train for as well as their community policing duties while on post. Some posts that I have been on have DoD Police only. Some have DoD Police and MPs. Some have private armed security to man checkpoints and MPs for policing. I’m not sure what combination Fort Hood has right now. Fort Bragg has contracted security for the entrance points. I think a lot of folks don’tr realize how large some bases are. Bragg is freaking huge and its not as big as Hood from what I hear. When I first went to work at the Pentagon Fort Myer was an open post and it is tiny. Pick up a rock and throw it three times and you’ve been across the base. But it became closed within one year. The same for Ft. Dix, which isn’t really an “active base” anymore. When i first got there I could just drive home without going through a gate. Not anymore. But we all know why there is increased security. > [@](#): > > I’m still in the Guard but when I was on active duty it wasn’t like that. If you lived in the barracks you had to store your weapons in the arms room. If you lived in family housing or off post you could keep your weapons at home, depending on local laws. As an officer the shooter was not living in the barracks. The day after the shooting a coworker told me the MPs stopped him at the gate because he had his registered weapon in the car. There was no problem, because the weapon was registered locally and on post per regulations. > [@](#): > > Of course it would be common to have a weapon there. Before my last deployment I had to carry my weapon around Ft Bliss for 2 months. But we were confined to an out of the way range complex. We would leave them behind when we went to the main PX. But no ammo. I didn’t get ammo until I got to Kuwait. When were you on active duty? I ask because I’ve never been anywhere where we had to carry weapons around just willy nilly. (not doubting you, just curious). ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/222 "2009-11-08T04:08:12Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > The Army used to conduct periodic Helath & Welfare Inspections of the barracks, what amounted to a no-notice/no-knock room-to-room, locker-by-locker search for prohibited items such as alcohol, drugs, knives (outside legal restrictions), and firearms. Yes, they still do this. > [@](#): > > Do they still do this? It was one of the (very many reasons) I left the Army. On our H&W’s our unit would use the personnel who lived in quarters or off-post to search the rooms/lockers of the guys in barracks. I had a married PFC (living in quarters) searching my locker when I was a sergeant living in the barracks. Then you were really in a fucked up unit. As far as I know from my own experience, team leaders and squad leaders are required to inspect the barracks rooms o their soldiers for the things you mentioned. Meaning NCOs. I feel you. I I lived in the barracks as a buck sergeant (and I did for awhile) I’ll be damned if a fucking private is going to inspect my room. I don’t even see how that could fly. They had a system during my first tour in Europe where you had to be given 24 hr. notice before an inspection. Thats probably not army wide and hell, that was 1992. I’ve had to inspect rooms, naturally, and I always feel like I’m invading someone’s privacy. Still, its my job. BUT that being said, you would not believe some of the crazy shit you can find in the barracks. I was on leave but a few weeks ago they had a massive inpsection and while I can’t go into detail (as I was not there) the things I heard were well, nuts. > [@](#): > > Basically, the barracks were built like/felt like a prison, and we were treated like scum/criminals. I think it depends on where you are and what the unit commander makes SOP. I’ve lived in barracks where, as you said, it was like being in prison. But I’ve lived in barracks where the commander basically told us “Keep the place clean, don’t break any standard rules (like weapons, etc) and don’t burn the building down and I 'll leave you all alone”. We used to have nigass weekend parties with bands and kegs and as long as we kept it under control the command didn’t mind. > [@](#): > > That propaganda would fly better if suicide bombers focused their efforts on more military targets instead of civilians, shopping centers, restaurants, bus stops, etc., etc. Terrorists want to spread terror. Attacking civilians spreads terror. It would be easier for us if they were like some fictional cartoony group like COBRA. But their hatred is borne from religion and their religious beliefs. We can’t change that. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/223 "2009-11-08T04:25:47Z")
> [@Jolly\_Roger](#): > > I don’t know the criteria you’re going from, because you may have gone to Airborne school some years ago. But currently as far as the Army is concerned I am qualified to go to Airborne school as long as I can pass the physical. Which is the problem on both sides. The doctor that gave me my initial airborne physical told me flat out I’d be crazy to do it even if I squeaked past the standards established. Not because she thought AB was stupid, but because, to be honest I would be putting myself in a risk situation healthwise. > > And you know what, thats my biggest reason or not wanting to do it. 20 years ago, maybe 10, I may not have liked it but I don’t wuss out on things. Now…I have what, a bit over 5 years until 50? I’ve already got enough health problems which thankfully haven’t crippled me in some way…20 years in…why would I want to do this now. > > I could derail the thread by going on about how it was stupid or the army to send me here in the first place, but it would get long. The Branch manager should have looked at my records and saw that “This guy is close to retirement, and he’s kinda old. Plus he just (at the time I got my orders) had fucking surgery. I need to fill this lot at Bragg, but this guy shouldn’t go. I can send him to the pentagon (where he’s worked before) or ARICOM or EUCOM where he has experience.”. > > This is something that has always bugged me since I was a private. The Army is really bad about placing people sometimes. But being a former recruiter I understand how it works. > > Fort Bragg has contracted security for the entrance points. I think a lot of folks don’tr realize how large some bases are. Bragg is freaking huge and its not as big as Hood from what I hear. When I first went to work at the Pentagon Fort Myer was an open post and it is tiny. Pick up a rock and throw it three times and you’ve been across the base. But it became closed within one year. The same for Ft. Dix, which isn’t really an “active base” anymore. When i first got there I could just drive home without going through a gate. Not anymore. But we all know why there is increased security. > > The day after the shooting a coworker told me the MPs stopped him at the gate because he had his registered weapon in the car. There was no problem, because the weapon was registered locally and on post per regulations. > > When were you on active duty? I ask because I’ve never been anywhere where we had to carry weapons around just willy nilly. (not doubting you, just curious). I am using the [current](https://www.infantry.army.mil/airborne/airborne/admin.htm) airborne criteria. You have to be 36 or under (waiverable). You are over but could get a waiver. You need to pass an airborne physical. It does not appear like you can. You have to pass a PT test at the 17-21 year old standard. I have no idea if you can or not. Airborne does not seem to be an option for you, even if you wanted to. And I agree, at your (our) age you would be foolish to do it. I came off my last deployment June 2009. We did not bring our weapons on to the main post of Fort Bliss but we had them at all times while we were living at the MacGregor Range Complex outside of post. I was just pointing out that while going through the mobilization process it would not be unusual to have a weapon. But it would be unusual to have ammo. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/224 "2009-11-08T04:44:16Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I am using the [current](https://www.infantry.army.mil/airborne/airborne/admin.htm) airborne criteria. You have to be 36 or under (waiverable). You are over but could get a waiver. You need to pass an airborne physical. It does not appear like you can. You have to pass a PT test at the 17-21 year old standard. I have no idea if you can or not. Airborne does not seem to be an option for you, even if you wanted to. And I agree, at your (our) age you would be foolish to do it. well, you’ve confirmed one thing for me, then. I haven’t checked the regs on it because, as you can tell, I’m not that interested in airborne school. I’m sure they could give me an age waiver, and I can obviously pass a PT test for my age group or I would not still be in the army, but other than the run event (which is 4 miles for AB if I recall correctly) I don’t think I can make the 17-21 age range. I’m not ashamed to admit that. I’m 24 years older than than that! I’m not going to volunteer for AB school just so the CSM can have a bragging point. (I’d do it for myself if I planned on staying in for a few more years, only because of the promotion prospects…and that is where it gets fuzzy. I always tells myself its not for prestige its for duty) > [@](#): > > I came off my last deployment June 2009. We did not bring our weapons on to the main post of Fort Bliss but we had them at all times while we were living at the MacGregor Range Complex outside of post. I was just pointing out that while going through the mobilization process it would not be unusual to have a weapon. But it would be unusual to have ammo. I’m guessing that you were or are infantry or in a combat arms MOS. Me, I’m signal corps. So I can understand how it may be different for you than it is for me. About the physical stuff…I hurt my back recently and that has utterly convinced me to not go to Airborne school. My wife is terrified that I’ll kill myself if I do…and I don’t blame her. I was in bed for 4 days a few months ago from the same injury and it h as flrared up again this weekend, (else I wouldn;t be here typing now. We were going to take a trip today but I could barely walk when I got up. I hate sick call, but I gotta go on monday) ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/225 "2009-11-08T05:18:01Z")
What does the military use to execute people nowadays? Firing squad? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/226 "2009-11-08T05:57:09Z")
Lethal injection, same as the rest of the federal government. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/227 "2009-11-08T10:43:29Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Shouting “Allahu Akhbar” before shooting a few dozen people? “No evidence?” That is the jihad cry from day one. I definitely recall reciting this prayer hundreds and hundreds of times when a youth: > [@](#): > > **God is great.** > God is good. > Thank you for this food. > Amen. Thanks to you, Huerta, I now know that I’m a jihadist. Or I can look at reality and accept the fact that it’s pure bigotry to tar the members of an entire religion for the act of one individual. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/228 "2009-11-08T10:51:58Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Godwin walks in the thread everytime you enter one with your nazi-linked user name. > > Yes, I’m still not entirely convinced your choice is/was as innocent as you’d have us believe. For some reason, I thought the “88” was that poster’s year of birth or year of graduation. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/229 "2009-11-08T14:12:40Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I knew the “Allahu Akbar” thing sounded like bullshit. I called it first. I’m sorry, I don’t know what this line means. This morning The day after you posted this) I saw an interview with a victim who said he heard someone shout the phrase and then started hearing the shots. Is there another cite to refute that? > [@Jolly\_Roger](#): > > I’m guessing that you were or are infantry or in a combat arms MOS. Me, I’m signal corps. So I can understand how it may be different for you than it is for me. I am a tanker but I was assigned to an IBCT HHC in an intel slot. The whole IBCT deployed but mostly not in combat roles. A large portion went to do detainee Ops. My company became an Area Support Group. We ran the Green Zone. [QUOTE=Monty] I definitely recall reciting this prayer hundreds and hundreds of times when a youth: [/QUOTE] I know it is a technique to be purposely obtuse sometimes but you know better. Find any cites where a Christian says god is great before slaughtering people. I can find dozens of clips, without trying very hard, filmed by terrorists doing just that. The phrase has an additional meaning in Arabic that it doesn’t in English. It is foolish to pretend otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/230 "2009-11-08T15:16:00Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I’m sorry, I don’t know what this line means. This morning The day after you posted this) I saw an interview with a victim who said he heard someone shout the phrase and then started hearing the shots. Is there another cite to refute that? Scroll up to **Skylark’s** cite from the medic on the scene who said the shooter was silent. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/231 "2009-11-08T17:06:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Scroll up to **Skylark’s** cite from the medic on the scene who said the shooter was silent. The person cited said he was walking into the building when the shooting started. That can be taken to mean he wasn’t there the moment prior to the event when the battle cry would have been uttered. Considering his opinion of the war and the idea that we were killing Muslims (not the Taliban or Al Queda) this was nothing but a personal Jihad and it’s highly likely he yelled “Allahu Akbar”. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/232 "2009-11-08T17:22:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The person cited said he was walking into the building when the shooting started. That can be taken to mean he wasn’t there the moment prior to the event when the battle cry would have been uttered. Considering his opinion of the war and the idea that we were killing Muslims (not the Taliban or Al Queda) this was nothing but a personal Jihad and it’s highly likely he yelled “Allahu Akbar”. Yep the link just said that the shooter was silent in his presence, not that he never said anything. The linked quotes were from someone who arrived as the incident was happening and then helped treat the wounded. On one of the network morning shows this morning a corporal that was shot in the leg stated that the shooter did yell the phrase before starting to shoot. I suppose you can pick which account to listen to a throw out any others that don’t meet your opinions. I don’t see how it matters anyway. Its not like anyone things the guy was ordered by Bin Laden. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/233 "2009-11-08T17:33:59Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The person cited said he was walking into the building when the shooting started. That can be taken to mean he wasn’t there the moment prior to the event when the battle cry would have been uttered. Considering his opinion of the war and the idea that we were killing Muslims (not the Taliban or Al Queda) this was nothing but a personal Jihad and it’s highly likely he yelled “Allahu Akbar”. I disagree. I think it sounds like crap people imagined they heard after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/234 "2009-11-08T17:47:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I disagree. I think it sounds like crap people imagined they heard after the fact. It is not surprising that you discount eyewitness accounts that go against your snap judgement of the situation and yet felt vindicated by the account of someone who in their own words was showing up as it started and could not have heard what happened just before the shooting. > [@](#): > > \*I was walking into the medical SRP building when he started firing \* ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/235 "2009-11-08T18:02:48Z")
Eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable. I flat don’t buy the Takbir shit. I’m sure lots of the people there have now convinced themselves they heard it, though. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/236 "2009-11-08T18:16:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable. I flat don’t buy the Takbir shit. I’m sure lots of the people there have now convinced themselves they heard it, though. I know of one person who has convinced himself it wasn’t said. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/237 "2009-11-08T18:53:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable. I flat don’t buy the Takbir shit. I’m sure lots of the people there have now convinced themselves they heard it, though. You have your view of how things should be with nothing to back it up and any other evidence be damned. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/238 "2009-11-08T18:54:29Z")
What evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/239 "2009-11-08T19:10:22Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I presume he is concerned about being part of and assisting a group killing Muslims. Well he already is. I don’t see how it makes much difference where he performs his counseling. The effect is the same. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/240 "2009-11-08T23:27:44Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Well he already is. I don’t see how it makes much difference where he performs his counseling. The effect is the same. True, but perhaps he couldn’t ignore it if he were in the country where it happens. He is, after all, crazy. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472.md?page=13)