# Multiple Shootings At Fort Hood **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 5, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472 "2009-11-05T21:09:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/261 "2009-11-09T16:27:19Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Christian officers do it all the time. Yes, that’s clearly been established in this thread and by the materials you cited. Oh. Wait. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/262 "2009-11-09T16:30:37Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > If he’d said any other Arabic phrase, they probably wouldn’t. But I think most Americans would know “Allah Akbar”. We hear it all the time in the context of crazy Islamic terrorists. Still not sure I buy it – again, the posters on this board are not the people on the ground in Kileen, Tex. I’m reminded that the one 9-11 actual backlash I **can** recall was when some idiot attacked a Sikh gas station owner. Yep – most Americans don’t know/don’t care about the fairly fundamental ethnic/religious/political/geographical difference between an “Arab” and a Punjabi. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/263 "2009-11-09T16:31:06Z")
Well, aside from my personal experience in the militray, there are multiple news stories about aggressive, Christian evangelicals in the military betraying their own oaths by trying to impose theocratic and religiose agendas on those under their command. And those guys don’t have the excuse of being mentally ill. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/264 "2009-11-09T16:32:39Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Still not sure I buy it – again, the posters on this board are not the people on the ground in Kileen, Tex. > > I’m reminded that the one 9-11 actual backlash I **can** recall was when some idiot attacked a Sikh gas station owner. Yep – most Americans don’t know/don’t care about the fairly fundamental ethnic/religious/political/geographical difference between an “Arab” and a Punjabi. They know “Allah Akbar,” or think they do. “one percent,” my ass. I’d guess it’s at least 60 or 70% It’s a cliche. Those who have convinced themselves the shooter said it probably saw it in a Bruce Willis movie or something. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/265 "2009-11-09T16:34:58Z")
Don’t worry about it, **Huerta88** , the blogosphere will make sure all the victims’ families see the statement and possibly extort an apology from Casey. The sentiment is completely legit: it _would_ be wrong, and very unfortunate, if this attack lead to discrimination or violence against other Muslims. It’s happened before. I wish he hadn’t put it that way just a couple of days after the attack, but it’s better he say something now (even if it leads to whining about political correctness) than to not respond until somebody does something crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/266 "2009-11-09T16:39:04Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They know “Allah Akbar,” or think they do. “one percent,” my ass. I’d guess it’s at least 60 or 70% It’s a cliche. Those who have convinced themselves the shooter said it probably saw it in a Bruce Willis movie or something. So you remain convinced – based on absolutely no affirmative evidence, and in the face of multiple percipient reports – that he didn’t utter the phrase? I can’t help you then. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/267 "2009-11-09T16:44:44Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Well, aside from my personal experience in the militray, there are multiple news stories about aggressive, Christian evangelicals in the military betraying their own oaths by trying to impose theocratic and religiose agendas on those under their command. And those guys don’t have the excuse of being mentally ill. Let’s get specific: > [@](#): > > “I, \_\_\_\_\_ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of \_\_\_\_\_ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God.” (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.) Unless you can point to a specific instance of a Christian officer proselytizing in a way that discouraged others from “discharging their duties,” or espousing a particular agenda that was inconsistent with defense of the Constitution, it’s not analogous. I’ve no doubt there are plenty of evangelical officers in your face about religious stuff that is **extraneous to** or **annoying as Hell to those who are just trying to** discharging duties. Unless they are simultaneously saying “and because of that, you needn’t obey orders” or “we shouldn’t shoot at the opponents our superiors have told us to because they’re Christians,” it’s not the same as what this guy was reported as having done (and which the military was too squeamish to investigate because of “diversity”). And no, believing that religion has a role in public life is not espousing “theocracy” in a way that subverts the Constitution or the Oath Of Office, so I’d need to see something better than that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/268 "2009-11-09T16:52:01Z")
They’re ignoring the First Amendment, therefore they’re violating their oaths to defend the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/269 "2009-11-09T16:52:54Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Still not sure I buy it – again, the posters on this board are not the people on the ground in Kileen, Tex. I’m not talking about this board. I’m talking about jokes, neighborhood gossip, the wonderful World Wide Web, etc. Pop culture. For that matter, the shootings happened in a military complex. I’m guess soldiers about to go to Iraq would be aware of what terrorists tend to say. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/270 "2009-11-09T16:58:01Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They’re ignoring the First Amendment, therefore they’re violating their oaths to defend the Constitution. I’m going to try to make the argument that I think you’re trying to make: They are abusing their authority **as officers** by **requiring as a condition of continuing service, in a way that would qualify as “state action” for purposes of constitutional analysis** , adherence to a particular religious creed [establishment clause] or abstention from the free exercise of another creed. Again, being an officer with loudly, obnoxiously expressed religious beliefs and a tendency to proselytize isn’t enough. Show me a cite to what I outline in the above paragraph, and we can talk. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/271 "2009-11-09T17:10:36Z")
I was forced to pray, and punished for not going to church. I understand things have gotten much worse. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/272 "2009-11-09T17:13:44Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > : it _would_ be wrong, and very unfortunate, But **worse** than 13 religiously-incentivized murders? What if the “discrimination” consisted merely of investigating, instead of burying, complaints that a serving officer seemed to be suggesting dereliction of duty when confronting Muslim enemies? I wouldn’t find that very unfortunate at all. But don’t hold your breath for it with the top brass saying our number one priority is “diversity.” Tone matters, and I’m thinking if there is another Muslim or other minority officer out there muttering seditious talk, and reports are made, those reports are going to be shitcanned right quick. I hear a lot more instant **talk** about backlashes than I do about actual meaningful backlashes. So far the frontlashers have a big numerical lead on the backlashers. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/273 "2009-11-09T17:19:47Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > But **worse** than 13 religiously-incentivized murders? Yes, but there’s no reason to belive this incident was religiously motivated. > [@](#): > > What if the “discrimination” consisted merely of investigating, instead of burying, complaints that a serving officer seemed to be suggesting dereliction of duty when confronting Muslim enemies? This has nothing to do with what the General was talking about. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/274 "2009-11-09T17:22:11Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > The obvious thing to do would be to try him according to the law. And _then_ show him mercy? Or do you think your lot will/should insist on some of that pre-medieval “eye for an eye” bullshit? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/275 "2009-11-09T17:26:35Z")
I can see how the righties are laying the groundwork to blame Obama for this, though. Obama mandates that “diversity” (a concept which is absolute anathema to teabaggers and dittoheads) be prioritized in the military. This leads to a culture which coddles those sneaky, Islamic terrorists in the army and lets them kill real Americans. But Obama don’t care, because he hates white people and he’s probably one OF them Moslems anyway. It took a couple of days, but now the strategy is there. We will see Sean Hannity blaming Obama for the Ft. Hood shootings tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/276 "2009-11-09T17:28:56Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This has nothing to do with what the General was talking about. It most assuredly does. Your assertion notwithstanding, “diversity” is not merely an exact synonym for “equal rights.” 'Cause we have a perfectly good phrase for “equal rights.” Guess what it is? “Diversity” is code for more – it means not hurting feelings. Equal rights requires merely that similarly situated persons be treated similarly. I.e., investigate all persons who are reported to have voiced doubts about carrying out duties based upon the religion of the opponent. Not “apparently refrain from investigating because a particular guy is in a protected class.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/277 "2009-11-09T17:35:00Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > But **worse** than 13 religiously-incentivized murders? And that’s why I said “I wish he hadn’t put it that way.” > [@](#): > > What if the “discrimination” consisted merely of investigating, instead of burying, complaints that a serving officer seemed to be suggesting dereliction of duty when confronting Muslim enemies? The guy’s overall behavior should have been looked into. That’s not discrimination, and I don’t think it’s what Casey is talking about. > [@](#): > > I’m thinking if there is another Muslim or other minority officer out there muttering seditious talk, and reports are made, those reports are going to be shitcanned right quick. I don’t believe that for a minute. It’s been 10 years since Columbine and kids still get investigated and disciplined over all kinds of ridiculous “warning signs.” > [@](#): > > I hear a lot more instant **talk** about backlashes than I do about actual meaningful backlashes. That’s kind of the idea. They hope they can tamp down any potential backlash by speaking about it pre-emptively. I don’t know if it makes a difference, but it’s better to say something about it beforehand than to say “I hope we don’t see any MORE revenge attacks” afterward. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/278 "2009-11-09T17:35:07Z")
No, it just means equal rights. Everything else is in your imagination. The General was only talking about avoiding a backlash of discrimination and harrassment. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/279 "2009-11-09T17:39:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, it just means equal rights. Everything else is in your imagination. The General was only talking about avoiding a backlash of discrimination and harrassment. This is exactly so, and I agree 100% with what the General said. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/280 "2009-11-09T17:43:24Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, it just means equal rights. Everything else is in your imagination. . Why didn’t he **say** , then, “equal rights,” which is a very venerable and well-understood phrase, much litigated? Whereas there is no bright-line or litigated definition of the ambits of “diversity.” Occam anyone? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472.md?page=15)