# Multiple Shootings At Fort Hood **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 5, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472 "2009-11-05T21:09:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/281 "2009-11-09T17:46:41Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > This is exactly so, and I agree 100% with what the General said. You agree with me? Mark the day. Maybe he shouldn’t have phrase it as “diversity,” because that makes it sound more frivolous than what he he meant. If he’d said “losing our equal rights” or something similar “would be worse,” I think it would have come across more clearly. I guarantee that Gen. Casey wasn’t talking about "hurt feelings "counting to make sure every unit has the right amount of rainbow colors or anything, though. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/282 "2009-11-09T17:49:35Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Why didn’t he **say** , then, “equal rights,” which is a very venerable and well-understood phrase, much litigated? Whereas there is no bright-line or litigated definition of the ambits of “diversity.” Because people don’t tend to pre-parse or analyze every word they say before they say it, and usually they don’t get every word sifted by millions of people looking for any excuse to act butthurt by them. > [@](#): > > Occam anyone? Exactly. The most parsimonious interpretation is that he meant exactly what the context would imply – that he was talking about avoiding an unfair backlash against Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/283 "2009-11-09T17:59:54Z")
Regarding _allahu akbar_, I imagine approximately 80% of American islamophobes are aware of it, have some notion of what it would sound like pronounced aloud, and would assume that any noise they hear that may or may not have been spoken by the Muslim guy is necessarily “allahu akbar,” even if it really was an inarticulate cry of rage or pain or possibly somebody else shouting, “Look out, he’s got a gun!” The other 20% of American islamophobes weren’t aware of allahu akbar until this story. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/284 "2009-11-09T18:03:15Z")
I’m sure that practically everybody in there was yelling their heads off once the first shot was fired, and memory can be a treacherous thing. The witnesses who claim to have heard it are not even independent in this case. If one person said he heard it, it would be a matter of minutes before half the people in there would be swearing they heard it too. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/285 "2009-11-09T18:06:01Z")
> [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](#): > > Regarding _allahu akbar_, I imagine approximately 80% of American islamophobes are aware of it, have some notion of what it would sound like pronounced aloud, and would assume that any noise they hear that may or may not have been spoken by the Muslim guy is necessarily “allahu akbar,” even if it really was an inarticulate cry of rage or pain or possibly somebody else shouting, “Look out, he’s got a gun!” > > The other 20% of American islamophobes weren’t aware of allahu akbar until this story. Any particular reason one would assume or be minded to think the eyewitnesses here were Islamophobes, taking your estimates as read for the moment? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/286 "2009-11-09T18:31:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I was forced to pray, and punished for not going to church. I understand things have gotten much worse. That’s inappropriate and annoying and it would be facile for me to say “just report it up the chain of command.” Still, relatively speaking, less worrisome to me than the apparent background here. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/287 "2009-11-09T18:35:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Well, aside from my personal experience in the militray, there are multiple news stories about aggressive, Christian evangelicals in the military betraying their own oaths by trying to impose theocratic and religiose agendas on those under their command. And those guys don’t have the excuse of being mentally ill. If there are numerous news stories I’m sure you can trouble yourself to look a few of them up for us, right? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/288 "2009-11-09T18:43:52Z")
There have been threads posted about them before. If I try to find them, will it have any effect at all on your opinion of this topic? If not, what’s the point? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/289 "2009-11-09T18:49:39Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m sure that practically everybody in there was yelling their heads off once the first shot was fired, and memory can be a treacherous thing. You don’t seem to have a problem remembering how things happened. You think soldiers are too stupid to recognize the phrase and accurately report it and have decided that they were somehow wrong because, I don’t know, it’s so unlike Muslims to say this while going on a murderous rampage? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/290 "2009-11-09T18:54:06Z")
Well, when I was in some years back I had a run in with a pushy evangelical type in my command - but when he got too pushy I mentioned it to my chief, his chief told his chief to back off, and everything worked out just fine. I’m not saying other people didn’t have experiences very different from mine - just that I never saw a terrible problem in this area when I was in. So because of that more information that I can evaluate one way or the other would be helpful. So I’m sure, given your claims, that you are prepared to provide such, right? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/291 "2009-11-09T19:01:19Z")
I am if you will answer my question first. Will it have any bearing on your opinions on this topic? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/292 "2009-11-09T19:07:10Z")
[Previous thread with links](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=455679) ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/293 "2009-11-09T19:13:03Z")
Two questions: Did anyone else briefly see a “BREAKING NEWS” banner on MSN saying that the shooter was awake? I saw it and planned to come back to it when I was done reading this thread, and now it’s gone away. Weird. And secondly, and perhaps it’s inflammatory, but why would it matter if the shooting as a terrorist attack as opposed to a workplace shooting? How would this distinction impact what happens next? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/294 "2009-11-09T19:16:11Z")
The hope on the right is that identfying it as a “terrorist” attack will allow them to exploit the incident for political advantage. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/295 "2009-11-09T19:21:22Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > If he’d said any other Arabic phrase, they probably wouldn’t. But I think most Americans would know “Allah Akbar”. We hear it all the time in the context of crazy Islamic terrorists. Bingo. Just about every old movie with them goofy Arabs has “Allah akbar” in it somewhere. Old movies with those crazy Japnanese has a “bonzai” in it somewhere. In movies with Russians its “nyet” and “das vidania”. Germans , its “nine”. And so on and so on. Most Americans dont speak those languages, but most of em have been frequently exposed in pop culture to a couple of key phrases. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/296 "2009-11-09T19:21:58Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > [Previous thread with links](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=455679) Okay. I stand by what I said in that thread - which was an expression of concern but far less absolute than your previous statement. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/297 "2009-11-09T19:25:55Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Any particular reason one would assume or be minded to think the eyewitnesses here were Islamophobes, taking your estimates as read for the moment? Show me where I said the eyewitness was an Islamophobe. You said eyewitness_es_. Please lend me a cite to any story citing more than one person claiming Hasan shouted, “Allahu akbar.” All I found was [this story,](http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/09/fort.hood.foster/)which cites one private saying that Hasan may or may not have shouted “Allahu akbar,” but _he doesn’t really know_. “I was sitting in about the second row back when the assailant stood up and yelled ‘Allahu akbar’ in Arabic and he opened fire,” Foster said Monday on CNN’s “American Morning.” > [@](#): > > Foster, 21, said he wasn’t clear about whether the gunman said those exact words, noting that “with that much adrenaline, you tend to forget things.” The story is dated today, November 9th. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/298 "2009-11-09T19:28:36Z")
> [@Beadalin](#): > > Did anyone else briefly see a “BREAKING NEWS” banner on MSN saying that the shooter was awake? I saw it and planned to come back to it when I was done reading this thread, and now it’s gone away. Weird. It’s still being reported. Maybe MSN actually uses some measure of common sense in applying the “breaking news” tag; I’ve notice CNN will say something is still breaking hours after it happened. [Anyway the New York Times still has it:](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/us/10hood.html?hp) > [@](#): > > Major Nidal Malik Hasan, the Army psychiatrist accused of shooting to death 12 soldiers and a civilian at Fort Hood, was said by hospital officials Monday to be conscious and able to talk. > [@Beadalin](#): > > And secondly, and perhaps it’s inflammatory, but why would it matter if the shooting as a terrorist attack as opposed to a workplace shooting? How would this distinction impact what happens next? Political and religious advantage, and the urge to categorize everything. It doesn’t matter much on planet earth, but people who have something to gain will make it out to be important. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/299 "2009-11-09T20:02:32Z")
> [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](#): > > Please lend me a cite to any story citing more than one person claiming Hasan shouted, “Allahu akbar.” [Here’s one:](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/09/us/09reconstruct.html?hp) > [@](#): > > Then, witnesses say, he bowed his head for several seconds, as if praying, stood up and drew a high-powered pistol. “Allahu akbar,” he said — “God is great.” And he opened fire. Within minutes he had killed 13 people. Granted, this is what two congressmen are saying the witnesses said, so it’s not 100 percent clear. CNN also says “other bystanders” are reporting that’s what he said before he started shooting. We’ll see. Right now it sounds like there are multiple sources on that. If it turns out only one person heard him say it and everybody else is repeating it, that’s a lot less credible, but right now there’s no particular reason to see it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472/300 "2009-11-09T20:19:33Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s still being reported. Maybe MSN actually uses some measure of common sense in applying the “breaking news” tag; I’ve notice CNN will say something is still breaking hours after it happened. > > [Anyway the New York Times still has it:](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/us/10hood.html?hp) Thanks – I must have had funky timing. I suspect you’re right about the urge to categorize and maybe make some political hay out of this incident. I keep hearing reporers mention that Lieberman wants a Congressional hearing to decide if it was terrorist or not, and thus I keep hoping that one of these times, they’ll report what he hopes to accomplish. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multiple-shootings-at-fort-hood/516472.md?page=16)