# Multivitamins **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 17, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574 "2013-12-17T18:27:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SerafinaPekala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@SerafinaPekala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SerafinaPekala)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/41 "2013-12-23T03:30:11Z")
Im not interested in living to 1000 but I dont want to look like Im that old! So I mostly eat a clean diet (minus the occasional pizza binge):rolleyes:/water/green tea, moderate exercise, good sleep habits, blahblahblah. And take a variety of supps. One that Im becoming interested in is Pycnogenol for this reason: Skin Pharmacol Physiol. 2012;25(2):86-92. doi: 10.1159/000335261. Epub 2012 Jan 21. Pycnogenol® effects on skin elasticity and hydration coincide with increased gene expressions of collagen type I and hyaluronic acid synthase in women. Conclusion: This study provides skin-physiological and for the first time molecular evidence that Pycnogenol supplementation benefits human skin by increasing skin hydration and skin elasticity. These effects are most likely due to an increased synthesis of extracellular matrix molecules such as hyaluronic acid and possibly collagen. Pycnogenol supplementation may thus be useful to counteract the clinical signs of skin aging." > **[Pycnogenol® effects on skin elasticity and hydration coincide with increased...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22270036/)** > > This study provides skin-physiological and for the first time molecular evidence that Pycnogenol supplementation benefits human skin by increasing skin hydration and skin elasticity. These effects are most likely due to an increased synthesis of... ^^ “Notes for this Study: In 20 postmenopausal women given 75mg Pycnogenol daily for 12 weeks, an increase in skin elasticity was seen in all participants and an increase in skin hydration appeared in all persons but only remained in persons with dry skin.” > **[Pycnogenol Health benefits, dosage, safety, side-effects, and more |...](https://examine.com/supplements/Pycnogenol/)** > > The latest research on Pycnogenol supplements. Expert analysis on potential benefits, dosage, side effects, and more. Another study suggested it might help with melasma: Phytother Res. 2002 Sep;16(6):567-71. Treatment of melasma with Pycnogenol. Ni Z, Mu Y, Gulati O. > **[Treatment of melasma with Pycnogenol - PubMed](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12237816/)** > > Melasma (or chloasma) is a common disorder of cutaneous hyperpigmentation predominantly affecting sun-exposed areas in women. The pathogenesis of melasma is not fully understood and treatments are frequently disappointing and often associated with... I dont endorse any vendor or brand, really. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/42 "2013-12-23T13:19:39Z")
> [@SerafinaPekala](#): > > Im not interested in living to 1000 but I dont want to look like Im that old! So I mostly eat a clean diet (minus the occasional pizza binge):rolleyes:/water/green tea, moderate exercise, good sleep habits, blahblahblah. And take a variety of supps. One that Im becoming interested in is Pycnogenol for this reason: > Skin Pharmacol Physiol. 2012;25(2):86-92. doi: 10.1159/000335261. Epub 2012 Jan 21. > Pycnogenol® effects on skin elasticity and hydration coincide with increased gene expressions of collagen type I and hyaluronic acid synthase in women. I see that this was a non-blinded study in which the 20 participants were followed for a grand total of 12 weeks. Whether this supplement is a good bet for long-term skin health is up in the air (note that collagen type I, which was found to be increased in this study, is also found in scar tissue. Do we really want a bunch of extra type I collagen in our skin?). Pcynogenol is one of those compounds that’s been the subject of quite a bit of hype in recent years. Evidence on long-term safety and efficacy [isn’t there](http://blogs.mcgill.ca/oss/2011/06/10/pycnogenol/), and is not likely to be supplied by its vendors. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/43 "2013-12-25T03:32:17Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Yes. Yes I can. > > 2-1/2 cents \> 0 > > There. > > It isn’t. Price of one banana is 30 cents which is greater than 2-1/2 cents. A banana doesn’t have all the vitamins needed. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/44 "2013-12-25T04:13:22Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > I take a multivitamin because I **know** I am a crappy eater and have been since I started living by myself (many decades). Yes, I know I should eat properly. I should also do many other things that I don’t. I figure taking a multivitamin is a concession to good health and is extremely convenient (important for lazy people like me). > > I’m not convinced that I would still need a multivitamin if I ate properly (although since they don’t cost much I’d probably still take them even after somebody beat me with a stick to eat properly). Let’s say that such vitamin supplements werent available-they just didnt exist-do you imagine that you’d eat just as crappy, knowing that you had no “concessions to good health”? Or might you eat just a little better, knowing that food was your only source for nutrition? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2013, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/45 "2013-12-25T04:20:24Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Let’s say that such vitamin supplements werent available-they just didnt exist-do you imagine that you’d eat just as crappy, knowing that you had no “concessions to good health”? Or might you eat just a little better, knowing that food was your only source for nutrition? Concessions to good health cost money. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2013, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/46 "2013-12-25T04:31:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Concessions to good health cost money. The point is, for most practical purposes, food IS your only source of nutrition. Supplements do no good whatsoever in the vast majority of cases and can cause harm. So however you would eat in the hypothetical situation in which supplements were unavailable is how you should (logically–not ideally) eat now, since unless you have scurvy or beriberi, those supplements are doing fuck all. You can’t afford real food? Sorry to hear it, but you probably shouldn’t be wasting your pennies on placebo tablets then. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2013, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/47 "2013-12-25T04:38:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Concessions to good health cost money. Um, and so does bad health. Whats your point? My original point was that multis can actually do more harm than good because they can worsen a person’s already poor diet by letting the person falsely believe a multivitamin will “pick up the slack”. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2013, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/48 "2013-12-25T05:00:49Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > The point is, for most practical purposes, food IS your only source of nutrition. Supplements do no good whatsoever in the vast majority of cases and can cause harm. I call shenanigans on your premise. Either they work in fortified foods or they don’t. The FDA can’t have it both ways. We’re talking about multivitamins specifically and not the entire spectrum of supplements. Taking massive amounts of anything beyond a recognized amount is an experiment we shouldn’t take without research to back it up. I myself take a multivitamin as well a couple of other supplements. I have researched what I take and monitored the results. Some of the things I take may turn out to have adverse effects down the road. but I can tell you know they’re more effective than the prescriptions I was taking. One of those prescriptions was pulled from the market because it was killing people. I’m very conservative of what I will try. It has to have been on the market for many years before I’ll even look at it. But make no mistake, the vitamins and other supplements I take make a huge difference in my quality of life. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2013, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/49 "2013-12-25T09:00:08Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > I take a multivitamin because I **know** I am a crappy eater and have been since I started living by myself (many decades). Yes, I know I should eat properly. I should also do many other things that I don’t. I figure taking a multivitamin is a concession to good health and is extremely convenient (important for lazy people like me). I think the point of this thread is that you’re probably wrong. As far as vitamin intake goes, a “crappy diet” is adequate to get the vitamins you need, and supplementing them won’t lead to better health. Only diets that rigourously avoid particular foods (vegans, crash dieters,etc.) or people with special health needs/problems (pregnant woman, etc), actually benefit from supplements (in the first world anyways). > [@maggiver](#): > > I myself take a multivitamin as well a couple of other supplements. I have researched what I take and monitored the results. “I have researched” leaves a lot to be desired as far as a cites go. The research posted in this thread so far seems to contradict you, but you say you’ve seen research that comes to a different conclusion? Then why not actually post a link to that research, or at least tell us where it comes from, and perhaps you’ll chance some minds. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2013, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/50 "2013-12-25T13:02:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Price of one banana is 30 cents which is greater than 2-1/2 cents. … Benefit to your health of one bannana \> 15 multivitamins. 15 times zero is still zero. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/51 "2013-12-25T14:33:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Price of one banana is 30 cents which is greater than 2-1/2 cents. > > A banana doesn’t have all the vitamins needed. WTF? Where did anyone specifically recommend eating bananas? Bananas are one type of food. We can’t get away from needing to eat food and it usually costs money. Whole foods like bananas contain vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients and zoonutrients not to mention macronutrients needed for survival. You can’t replace those needs with a multi. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/52 "2013-12-25T16:43:19Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > WTF? Where did anyone specifically recommend eating bananas? Bananas are one type of food. We can’t get away from needing to eat food and it usually costs money. Whole foods like bananas contain vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients and zoonutrients not to mention macronutrients needed for survival. You can’t replace those needs with a multi. Yes and you can name any food on the planet and it will cost more than a multivitamin by many multiples and will not return the level of vitamins delivered. I realize you have difficulty with financial aspect of this but I have a limited food budget and multivitamins make up the difference. The benefits are measurable. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/53 "2013-12-25T16:47:50Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Benefit to your health of one bannana \> 15 multivitamins. > > 15 times zero is still zero. No, they’re not. I kept track of what worked for me and what didn’t. Fresh fruits and vegetables are great for those who can afford them but I can’t afford to eat what is necessary to replace a vitamin. It’s that fucking simple. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/54 "2013-12-25T17:01:03Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The benefits are measurable. Yet when researchers attempt to measure the benefits, they aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/55 "2013-12-25T17:09:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes and you can name any food on the planet and it will cost more than a multivitamin by many multiples and will not return the level of vitamins delivered. That’s irrelevant. Regardless of your financial situation, you are eating thousands of calories of food a day and they’re not only coming from one food source like bananas. Your banana argument holds zero weight. > [@](#): > > The benefits are measurable. You’ve ignored the request in the following post: > [@Simplicio](#): > > I think the point of this thread is that you’re probably wrong. As far as vitamin intake goes, a “crappy diet” is adequate to get the vitamins you need, and supplementing them won’t lead to better health. > > Only diets that rigourously avoid particular foods (vegans, crash dieters,etc.) or people with special health needs/problems (pregnant woman, etc), actually benefit from supplements (in the first world anyways). > > “I have researched” leaves a lot to be desired as far as a cites go. The research posted in this thread so far seems to contradict you, but you say you’ve seen research that comes to a different conclusion? Then why not actually post a link to that research, or at least tell us where it comes from, and perhaps you’ll chance some minds. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/56 "2013-12-25T17:21:09Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Yet when researchers attempt to measure the benefits, they aren’t. We just discussed the improper use of statistical analysis with the current “research” example. I would have received a poor grade in school if I delivered a paper using the criteria listed. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/57 "2013-12-25T17:36:08Z")
The benefits _are_ measurable: the measurement is zero. The crappy standard American diet will result in many ills but problems resulting from vitamin deficiencies is not among them and supplementing that crappy standard American diet with multivitamins has the measured effect of zero. Amazingly a diet that includes fruits and vegetables (canned and frozen are just fine, so long as there is not much added sugar or other crap) and whole grains need not cost more than diet full of crap. Can be cheaper even. Doesn’t have to be of course. I am happy your placebo “works” for you. Enjoy it. Odds are you are doing little to no harm other than feeling that you don’t need to spend the small effort to eat healthier in general because you do your placebo. And you are in good company in America **Magiver**. The evidence is overwhelming that a diet that includes a variety of fruits, vegatables, whole grains, and avoiding inactivity (ideally actually exercising some) will decrease the odds of avoiding diabetes, heart disease, strokes, cognitive decline, dementia, cancer, and keep people fully active and productive longer. It’s cheap and easy. Tasty and fun too! But most Americans can’t be arsed to do it. They’d rather pop a placebo and delude themselves while they continue to sit on their asses and eat their crap. Most don’t get so angry about it as you do, but hey, YMMV! So enjoy. Shame is that I’ll have to pay for some share of your medical care in your retirement, maybe even your avoidable long term dementia care … but hey thems the breaks. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/58 "2013-12-25T17:41:47Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > That’s irrelevant. no, it’s not irrelevant. It’s basic math. You can’t reproduce the level of vitamins consumed for the money spent. period. Your assessment that they have no value is irrelevant. We know vitamin intake replaces missing vitamins. This is not in dispute. Over time I’ve mitigated major health issues by researching the cause and the solution. I’ve been able to replace a deadly medicine (since pulled from the market) with a supplement that worked better and cheaper. Good diets cost real money and if you’re too dense to understand this and that there are people who can’t afford it then there’s no point in this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/59 "2013-12-25T17:47:24Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > no, it’s not irrelevant. Yes, it is. The price of a banana compared to a multi is irrelevant. I already showed why. > [@](#): > > I’ve been able to replace a deadly medicine (since pulled from the market) with a supplement that worked better and cheaper. Also irrelevant. Some supplements have benefits. We’re talking about multis here. Why not tell us what supplement and benefit you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/60 "2013-12-25T17:55:42Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > The benefits _are_ measurable: the measurement is zero. Zero? The vitamins in baby formula have zero value? Really? REALLY? CITE that vitamins are not absorbed by the human body. The rest of your post is pure 100% arrogance. That you don’t understand that there are people who can’t afford fruits or vegetables, canned or otherwise is mind boggling. So put up or shut up. Cite that vitamins are not absorbed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574.md?page=4)