# Multivitamins **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 17, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574 "2013-12-17T18:27:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/121 "2014-01-03T14:41:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The idea that healthy could be had for less discounts the reality that food choice is one of the few things a person on a budget has any control over. Not everybody wants to start or end their day with an apple and a handful of kale. You do understand how the two parts of your statement contradict each other, don’t you? The second part is more the operative bit. Not everyone wants to make healthy choices. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/122 "2014-01-03T19:47:05Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > You do understand how the two parts of your statement contradict each other, don’t you? > > The second part is more the operative bit. Not everyone wants to make healthy choices. People are not going to limit their entire food budget to rabbit food. It’s not realistic nor will it cover all the vitamins that are supposedly needed to be healthy. Now if you want to stay the course suggested earlier that the daily recommendations are not necessary that’s fine. Your argument is harder to prove without a metric. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/123 "2014-01-03T21:10:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > People are not going to limit their entire food budget to rabbit food. **DSeid** was responding to your statement about starting or ending one’s day with fruits/vegetables. Now you’re suggesting he wants people to limit their diet entirely to those items. I sense an enormous straw man. Now be a good boy and eat your brussels sprouts, or you’re going straight to bed. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/124 "2014-01-03T21:13:49Z")
[QUOTE=Jackmannii] Now be a good boy and eat your brussels sprouts, or you’re going straight to bed. [/QUOTE] _sigh_ This obviously brings back memories (if I were Doctor Evil): [I never met my birth parents. There was a car accident. I’m told it was a beautiful Belgian day. The smell of waffles and brussel sprouts filled the summer air until my birth mother was incinerated. I only survived because her smoking carcass formed a protective cocoon of slaughtered human effluence. A Belgian man and his 15 year old love slave with web feet was looting the accident scene]([http://www.subzin.com/quotes/Austin+Powers+in+Goldmember/The+smell+of+waffles+and+brussel+sprouts+filled+the+summer+air+until+my+birth+mother+was+incinerated](http://www.subzin.com/quotes/Austin+Powers+in+Goldmember/The+smell+of+waffles+and+brussel+sprouts+filled+the+summer+air+until+my+birth+mother+was+incinerated))… ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/125 "2014-01-03T21:21:00Z")
We make progress. You see kale, apples, greens/beans/brown rice, chicken/veggie stir fry, stews, a PB sandwich on whole grain bread with a banana and a carrot, and their ilk as “rabbit food” and prefer the diet of cheap frozen meals with the “assurance” that a multivitamin will be giving you what you need (if I am getting at least RDA of all the listed vitamins and minerals I am better off than eating a diet of a variety of fruits and veggies that might on any particular day not hit RDA for one or the other, you claim to believe), anything rather than having to eat that rabbit food. You need your crap. That’s fine, that’s your choice to make. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/126 "2014-01-03T22:45:21Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > We make progress. You see kale, apples, greens/beans/brown rice, chicken/veggie stir fry, stews, a PB sandwich on whole grain bread with a banana and a carrot, and their ilk as “rabbit food” and prefer the diet of cheap frozen meals with the “assurance” that a multivitamin will be giving you what you need (if I am getting at least RDA of all the listed vitamins and minerals I am better off than eating a diet of a variety of fruits and veggies that might on any particular day not hit RDA for one or the other, you claim to believe), anything rather than having to eat that rabbit food. You need your crap. > > That’s fine, that’s your choice to make. but your list of food didn’t add up to the vitamins needed. You have to discount the recommended amount in order for your suggested plan to work. Your wide variety of whatever costs more money and it doesn’t deliver the vitamins we’re suppose to consume every day. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/127 "2014-01-04T00:02:17Z")
I have not bothered to calculate out what a typical day of my complete menu (consisting of more than just the foods listed in the post you reference, more the complete day plan ones given). If they do not add up to RDA or more then I would be shocked. Others have done those analyses (see Jackmanni’s previous cite) and found that the only one hard to get on an extremely tight budget was potassium. If I have time to play later I will try to add up one of those daily menus. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/128 "2014-01-04T06:57:34Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I have not bothered to calculate out what a typical day of my complete menu (consisting of more than just the foods listed in the post you reference, more the complete day plan ones given). If they do not add up to RDA or more then I would be shocked. Well oddly, I have looked at my intake of food. and I was surprised at what it took to meet the RDA guidelines. I looked at the food I found palatable, how much they cost and how often I’d have to consume them. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/129 "2014-01-04T13:20:48Z")
Had some time to play. Hits all. Exact levels varies of course with what is chosen each daily menu. Biggest issue was giving you the calories you likely need. Sample day. Breakfast:A bowl of whole grain cereal like Cheerios serving size is 1/2 cup so I used that but you’d likely have more) with a half cup of milk. An orange. Lunch: A peanut butter (2 tbs) sandwich on whole grain bread with a banana and a carrot. Have two PBs if you want. You need the calories and it is cheap. I only counted the vitamins and protein in one though. Dinner: A classic greens/beans/brown rice dish - spinach, kale, collard greens, whichever is cheapest didn’t matter. Cook with a cheap canola oil (high monosaturatd fats). Big meal (seems to be your norm) so two servings (2 cups of beans and 1 to 2 of rice with a 10 ounce package of frozen spinach and half an onion cooked in. But eat until your are satisfied. Another 2 1/2 to 3 cups of milk to drink along the day. Splurge some and snack on some unsalted almonds along the way. Just an ounce or so. Add it up for yourself. I used [nutritiondata.self.com](http://nutritiondata.self.com) or packages that I had in my house for my data. But yes I stand by the claim that if eating a diet that meets the guidelines of whole grains with 3 vegetable and 2 fruits servings with dairy and adequate protein from a variety of sources did not meet RDA then RDA is immaterial: a set of choices that does that that does not meet RDA any individual day is _far_ healthier than meeting RDA by way of a multi added to crap. But yes, crap is what you find palatable so it takes a lot of it to get to RDA. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/130 "2014-01-04T22:35:18Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I’d summarize it as: > > -true vitamin deficiencies manifesting as disease are rare in the U.S. > -a multivitamin is not a substitute for good nutrition > -megadoses of some vitamins may be harmful > -beware of unproven/false health claims for supplements > -eating well is feasible on limited budgets Also: -Multivitamins at best will do precious little to improve your health, relative to increasing your fiber, vegetable and whole grain intake and cutting back on fat, sugar and for those over 40, salt. Much of the latter is jammed into processed foods, though it doesn’t have to be. Read the nutrition labels with the understanding that the Big Food cares little about your health. Really. They don’t. _Demonstrably._ Multi-Vs are a sideshow. And desk jockies need to figure out a way of getting some exercise into their routine. -Still, at 4-6 cents a pop they are a bargain, provided they are not hurting you. Which we can’t rule out exactly, though I maintain their effects (good or bad) are not enormous. I’m assuming no megadosing. ---
**Author:** ![sstaurus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@sstaurus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sstaurus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/131 "2014-01-04T23:32:56Z")
I didn’t read this whole thread, but if anyone hasn’t, they should watch _Food Matters_, it’s a documentary on netflix. (In the pro-vitamin camp) The end kind of reeks like an advertisement, but if you can look past that then I’d say its a worthwhile watch. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/132 "2014-01-05T00:28:35Z")
I’ve tried to follow the thread, but all the arguing gets confusing. What I want to know is this: The wife and I eat probably an okay diet. And we take one multivitamin a day. Centrum brand. Is it really of no benefit? Might it actually be harmful? Or it can’t hurt? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/133 "2014-01-05T04:28:50Z")
I am not a biologist. > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I’ve tried to follow the thread, but all the arguing gets confusing. What I want to know is this: The wife and I eat probably an okay diet. And we take one multivitamin a day. Centrum brand. Me too, basically. (Though I ordered the Costco brand a couple of days ago. I might not reorder it.) > [@](#): > > Is it really of no benefit? Maybe, maybe not. > [@](#): > > Might it actually be harmful? ## Maybe, maybe not. My take. Shrug and don’t worry about it. The evidence is mixed and it’s not like the pills are toxic. Nor will they work miracles. Back to it: Pro-multi/anti-mega: > **[The case for multivitamins](https://news.uci.edu/2010/04/13/the-case-for-multivitamins/)** > > UCI’s Frances Jurnak explains how daily supplements, if taken correctly, can benefit lifelong health. 4 researchers at Tufts are interviewed. I’ll excerpt: > **[Minding the Multi](https://now.tufts.edu/2013/11/06/minding-multi)** > > We asked four Tufts nutritionists to sit down for a roundtable discussion about the science of multivitamins and to answer a simple question: Should healthy adu Lichtenstein: … There was a very extensive systematic review sponsored by the federal government that was done by the Johns Hopkins Evidence-Based Practice Center that showed no benefit to the general population from a multivitamin. Blumberg: I agree. …But I don’t agree with the converse: that people who need them the least don’t need them at all, because they are not meeting their RDAs either. Maybe some of the RDAs are not perfect, but they are a goal that reflects the current consensus, and we know that most people aren’t meeting it. Dwyer: Speaking for myself, I don’t think that a multivitamin is going to cause any particular good, nor do I think it is going to cause any particular harm. …Indiscriminate vitamin use is sort of like the use of holy water in the Middle Ages: People thought if you sprinkled it on things, it would ward off all evil. People who take supplements would probably be offended by that, but sometimes if you look at their reasons, they are not more sophisticated than beliefs in the Middle Ages. …To say that multivitamins are causing mortality—I really believe that is a big stretch, and I don’t think that particular paper is in line with the rest of the literature. Most of the studies that say things like that are not controlling for the confounders, such as smoking, obesity, preexisting illness, etc. Sadly, you can’t control for all of the confounders in an observational study. - See more at: [Minding the Multi | Tufts Now](http://now.tufts.edu/articles/minding-multi#sthash.ftLpUDyx.dpuf) Personally, I’m a big believer in holy water. I mean sitings of vampires are pretty rare, but what’s the harm? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/134 "2014-01-05T14:29:58Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I’ve tried to follow the thread, but all the arguing gets confusing. What I want to know is this: The wife and I eat probably an okay diet. And we take one multivitamin a day. Centrum brand. Is it really of no benefit? Might it actually be harmful? Or it can’t hurt? 1. It is highly probably really of no benefit. 2. It is possibly harmful. In both cases the possiblity of significant impact, good or bad, of one multi daily, is very small. The risk of significant harm from a daily multi is more in false assurance it provides. There is no health substitute for your diet containing actual vegetables and fruits and for limiting how much crap you eat. ---
**Author:** ![mechaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@mechaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mechaman)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/135 "2014-01-10T23:45:41Z")
I’d like to know how it is ANYONE’S business what I spend my money on? What, if I spend my money on vitamins, there won’t be enough for a total cashectomy at the hospital? I’m being ridiculous, purposely. I remember, years ago, as a boy, hearing the same line: vitamins are useless/dangerous, people who take them are food faddists, so on and on. That didn’t faze my mother, who spooned out the pills and cod liver oil. Then, some busybody surveyed a bunch of doctors about their nutritional habits - and it turned out that a lot of them took vitamins. The explanations were worthy of Bruce Rauner’s ‘minimum wage’ flop. Oh, ‘they’ had a lot of stress, and didn’t always eat right. You know, like the rest of us did? There was a doctor who made the talk show rounds back then who spouted the same old line … and then after the survey came out, he introduced his own line of vitamins. So tell me, if the vitamins in food maintain health, do they stop working when they’re extracted from food? If so, why did my wife’s doctor give her a prescription for B12 injections? How dat work, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574/136 "2014-01-11T00:53:49Z")
> [@mechaman](#): > > I’d like to know how it is ANYONE’S business what I spend my money on? I don’t think you get how messageboards work. > [@mechaman](#): > > What, if I spend my money on vitamins, there won’t be enough for a total cashectomy at the hospital? I’m being ridiculous, purposely. I remember, years ago, as a boy, hearing the same line: vitamins are useless/dangerous, people who take them are food faddists, so on and on. > > That didn’t faze my mother, who spooned out the pills and cod liver oil. Then, some busybody surveyed a bunch of doctors about their nutritional habits - and it turned out that a lot of them took vitamins. The explanations were worthy of Bruce Rauner’s ‘minimum wage’ flop. Oh, ‘they’ had a lot of stress, and didn’t always eat right. You know, like the rest of us did? There was a doctor who made the talk show rounds back then who spouted the same old line … and then after the survey came out, he introduced his own line of vitamins. So tell me, if the vitamins in food maintain health, do they stop working when they’re extracted from food? If so, why did my wife’s doctor give her a prescription for B12 injections? How dat work, huh? See? The first step is to _read_ the thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/multivitamins/676574.md?page=6)