Magiver, dial it back on the personal hostility.
[ /Moderating ]
no you haven’t. And the cost is very relevant on a budget. I realize you think you’re the federal government and can spend way beyond your budget but in the real world it doesn’t work that way.
I just ate lunch. It cost me $1. it had a fraction of the following vitamins and minerals:
A, B6, C, E, Iron, magnesium, phosphorus, manganese, potassium.
it had 390 calories, 560 mg of Sodium, 10g of protein. 3g of fiber.
Well honestly I did. By quite a bit. People are making claims that are absurdly false regarding multivitamins and are basing it on extremely flawed statistical analysis.
Here is a cite describing same:
Why Take a Multivitamin?
For those who eat a healthy diet, a multivitamin may have little or no benefit. A diet that includes plenty of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, good protein packages, and healthy fats should provide most of the nutrients needed for good health. But not everyone manages to eat a healthful diet. When it comes to micronutrients, many Americans get less than the adequate amounts, according to criteria set by the Institute of Medicine. For example, more than 90 percent of Americans get less than the Estimated Average Requirement for vitamin D and vitamin E from food sources alone. (5) Many older people have trouble absorbing vitamin B12 from food; the Dietary Guidelines for Americans 2010, in fact, recommends that people over the age of 50 eat foods fortified with vitamin B12 or take vitamin B12 supplements.
It’s basic math. A multivitamin helps those who cannot afford a good diet.
I have. See post 55. The cost ratio of bananas and multis is totally irrelevant.
Oh, I inferred that somewhere? :rolleyes:
Also irrelevant. Hopefully you eat more than a $1 lunch throughout the day.
Also irrelevant. You’re going to need more calories from food throughout the day to survive. Multis don’t contain significant if any amount of protein or fiber. Fear of “excess” sodium is unwarranted for most people, but that’s a point for another thread.
Can you give us more info about this? What supplement, what condition and which medicine was pulled? There must be a replacement medicine that you can probably get government assistance to pay for since it seems you have a pretty bad financial situation and you wouldn’t have to spend money on an OTC supplement.
It’s not irrelevant. A multivitamin is the best dollar value for vitamins and minerals. You can’t lay down a budget where this is not true. You can spend enough money to cover this if you can afford it. But that’s true of anything in life. I could have a Ferrari if I had the money. Or, I could build a Mustang that goes as fast as a Ferrari for a fraction of the cost.
Beyond the cost involved very few people sit down and figure out what it takes to get all the necessary vitamins and minerals needed. Vitamins cover that gap too.
So unless you can cite that vitamins don’t absorb or can be purchased cheaper by way of other foods then the reality of the situation is that they represent the best way of getting the necessary amount on a regular basis.
Of course it is Neither I or anyone disputed that. You’re making a straw man argument. However, your banana cost to multi cost ratio is irrelevant.
Sorry, not gonna fall for it. Not gonna defend claims I didn’t make.
Why not respond the the last part of mine in post 64?
Then we’re in agreement. I don’t see any point in discussing this then. Those on a tight budget benefit from vitamins absent the money needed to buy fresh fruits and vegetables.
If after all of the back and forth you genuinely came to the conclusion that we’re in agreement on all of that, I’d be wasting my time if I kept this up. I should have realized so much by your not understanding your multi to banana cost ratio argument is irrelevant and your unwillingness to comment on something I asked you to several times.
We were discussing multi-vitamins. That’s the topic. You agreed that the human body absorbs vitamins. The cost of vitamins as it relates to this topic is the only other relevant factor involved. Either they’re more cost effective or they’re not.
So either the vitamins and minerals in fortified foods such as baby formula and milk are cost effective or they’re not.
The vitamins and minerals in fortified food are a large part of what make multivitamins irrelevant. Unless you manage to avoid both vegetables and fortified foods completely, the odds are you get all your vitamins and minerals through your diet. But that’s just the odds. Maybe you do in fact subsist entirely on plain pasta and rice. In that case, yes, you are at risk of acute vitamin deficiencies like scurvy and a multivitamin is probably helping stave those off. Probably, mind you: there are documented issues with absorption of some brands of multivitamins. You’d still do well to pick up a can of tomato sauce from the food bank once a week.
Right.
Here are the options:
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Eat the a cheap version of the standard American diet (a.k.a. crap). NOT any significant risk of significant vitamin deficiencies. (Yes, as cited earlier, to a large degree due to fortification of that crap.) Definitely puts one at higher risk of cancers, dementia, diabetes, heart disease etc. than a diet high in vegetables (including canned and frozen), fruits, and whole grains.
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Eat that diet plus a multivitamin. Same thing.
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Eat a diet high in vegetables, fruits, and whole grains. Spend about the same money or less than eating crap. Have a much lower risk of cancers, dementia, diabetes, heart disease etc. …
Magiver I really am curious. No desire to fight against your witnessing and convince you that your faith in the Church of the Supplement is poorly based. Faith is a powerful thing and I respect that. But please, post a typical day’s diet for you and how much you spend on it. I predict I can pretty easily come up with a diet plan in the same daily budget that includes adequate amounts of vegatables and fruits.
There’s no need to witness when you admit fortified foods work.
All that’s left is some indication you realize there are 47 million people in the US on food stamps followed by those who don’t qualify for food stamps but still struggle to make ends meet. It’s just a function of you stepping out into the real world.
Actual average current advertised prices for fruits and vegetables btw.
Broccoli $1.08/lb
Carrots $0.66/lb
Cauliflower $1.20/lb
Fresh spinach $2.50/lb (but I can buy in frozen in bulk at Costco for about $1.00/lb)
Acorn squash $0.83/lb
Kale $1.11/lb
Mustard greens $1.06/lb
Sweet potatoes $0.73/lb
Onions $0.55/lb
Russet potatos $0.77/lb
Apples down to $1.21/lb
Bannanas $0.48/lb
Oranges down to $0.49/lb
Generally a pound of vegetable will be about 4 servings and a pound of fruit will be about 3 servings.
Dried beans, lentils, brown rice, buckwheat, pasta, canned tomatos, all pretty cheap.
You’d be amazed the variety of meals, damn tasty ones, can be made and had out of those ingredients. One basic skeleton - pick an orange veggie (squash, carrots or sweet potato for example), a green leafy one (kale, mustard greens, spinach …), and a bean or other meat or both. Spice to your flavor profile of choice, be it Southern, Mexican, or Indian or whathaveyou. Freeze individual portions.
Now no need to be a vegetarian and feel free to stay low carb if that floats your boat but the vegetable/fruit/whole grain portion of a diet plan, be it the 5 servings a day of vegetable/fruits or the half of every plate (and half of the other half being the whole grain) can be done for easily under a buck fifty the whole day.
Avoiding veggies and fruits may be more expensive than eating them.
I just take vitamin D supplements. I eat healthy foods (a wide variety of vegetables and fruit with every meal) and all my other vitamins are fine, but I don’t go out in the sun much and when I do, I use sunblock, so my vitamin D was very weak. Since I started taking the supplements, my tested vitamin D score has gone back to normal range (the low end of normal, but still a huge improvement). I don’t know for sure it’s helping my health, but I am not about to stop. My hair seems to have stopped thinning, at least.
Vitamin D: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/929.html
Also, prenatal vitamins have been shown to help prevent autism…
I have some problems with the autism study but have no problem accepting prenatal and periconceptional vitamin supplementation as a particular circumstance in which there is an evidenciary basis. The solid evidence there is folate for prevention of neural tube defects (like spina bifida).
Vitamin D is a work in progress. Clearly modern life is associated with a larger numbers of Vitamin D deficiency and there has also been some diagnosis creep. Lowish vitamin D levels have been associated with many ills but so far supplementing it has not been found to help prevent those ills (other than those related to bone health). It seems increasingly likely that lowish vitamin D is a marker of risk rather than a cause for much of what vitamin D supplementation is touted for.
In the poster’s defense, I’d like to point out that overdosing on vitamin D or B12 can lead to confusion and irritability.
So still no sample day’s (or week’s) diet and food budget?
Maybe you live off of rice and peanut butter on Wonder Bread only, barely getting the calories you need. That would be cheaper than a balanced diet and if that is all you can afford - pennies a day - then fine. Can’t afford internet. Maybe on the streets. Maybe you live in a food desert where there are no grocery stores and you have no transportation. I don’t know your life.
But if you spend more than $15/week, let alone 20 plus, on food and have a place to cook you can have a balanced diet with vegetables and fruits. The reason not to is laziness and ignorance, not that it is a luxury that the poor cannot afford.
You made a short list of vegetables and fruits which you’re presumably claiming will cover the vitamin and mineral requirements within a budget. Let’s look at what your limited list of rabbit food provides:
Broccoli $1.08/lb --------------- good source of vitamin C and K
Cauliflower $1.20/lb-----------good source of vitamin C
Both of these are mostly waste product unless you enjoy eating stalks
Apples down to $1.21/lb------ no redeeming vitamin value
Carrots $0.66/lb-----------------good source of vitamin A
Fresh spinach $2.50/lb -------- good source of vitamin A and K
Acorn squash $0.83/lb---------moderate source of vitamin C
Kale $1.11/lb---------------------great source of Vit- A, C, - overkill on Vit- K, good source of Manganese
Mustard greens $1.06/lb------ great source of Vit- A, C, Folate
Sweet potatoes $0.73/lb------overkill on Vitamin A
Onions $0.55/lb-----------------moderate source of vitamin C
Russet potatos $0.77/lb-------moderate source of B6 and potassium
Bananas $0.48/lb---------------good source of Vitamin C, B6 potassium and manganese
Oranges down to $0.49/lb----overkill on Vitamin C
So you’ve accounted in full for the following:
Vitamins A, B6, C, and K
Also, Folic Acid, Potassium, Manganese.
Now lets review what my one multivitamin covers:
Vitamins A,C, D, E K, B-1, B2, B6, B-12.
Also, Niacin, Folic Acid, Calcium, Phosphorus, Iodine, Magnesium, Zinc, Selenium, Copper, Manganese, Chromium, Molybdenum, Chloride, Potassium, Lutein, Lycopene,
My one vitamin costs 5.6 cents. You estimated intake of fruits and vegetable which don’t cover all the vitamins needed cost $20+ on top of other food sources people normally buy.
I work 7 days a week. I eat twice a day. I rarely have time to cook and when I do it’s something that freezes well and is palatable and cost effective. That would be something like a pork roast with potatoes onions apples and cabbage. A rare treat. If I think I’ll have time to eat it I’ll splurge and make something like a Greek Salad with cauliflower, broccoli, tomatoes onions, peppers and cheese.
In reality I don’t get to do this very often. So I take a multivitamin to supplement a cheap frozen dinner that has a meat and vegetable.
You need a firmer grasp of the world around you. Many people can’t afford to buy enough fruit and vegetables to cover the entire spectrum of vitamins and minerals. Your advice is without merit and harms those who would benefit from such a small investment in their health.
Hey, this is the USA-as long as you include the label “Not Intended to diagnose or treat any disease or medical condition” , you can sell anything, and made outrageous claims for it.
Not to split hairs but the stalks contain the most nutritional value in broccoli. 