# Mumia Abu Jamal **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 2, 2003, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466 "2003-12-02T07:23:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sandino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Sandino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandino)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/1 "2003-12-02T07:23:55Z")
Frame up? or cop killer? ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/2 "2003-12-02T07:39:28Z")
Darn it, I was getting to like your _Zampolit_-like exhortations in the other thread! 😉 Let us look at the facts: 1. Mumia was found at the site of the murder with a .38 revolver. 2. The revolver that he was carrying was registered to him. 3. Ballistic evidence showed that the bullets in the body were from the revolver that he was carrying that was registered to him. 4. Forensic evidence showed that Mumia had indeed recently discharged a firearm. 5. The French love him. True justice would have seen him put down a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/3 "2003-12-02T08:39:00Z")
Free Mumia! ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/4 "2003-12-02T10:45:28Z")
Free Mumia with purchase of a large “Fight the Power” combo meal. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/5 "2003-12-02T11:07:53Z")
Guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/6 "2003-12-02T13:35:31Z")
Yeah, it always looked from here like he did it. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/7 "2003-12-02T13:41:35Z")
I found [this](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/950721.html) to be a pretty even-handed treatment of the evidence at hand. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/8 "2003-12-02T14:14:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Michael Ellis \* > \*\*Free Mumia with purchase of a large “Fight the Power” combo meal. \*\* That was just brilliant. Back to topic, I couldn’t figure out why the Greens were so behind him. How long ago did this happen anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/9 "2003-12-02T14:25:33Z")
Pretty much guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Chicago\_Faucet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chicago_faucet/32/13910_2.png) [@Chicago\_Faucet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicago_Faucet)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/10 "2003-12-02T14:26:00Z")
I believe it happened in the late 70s/early 80s. The following website is hosted by the slain cop’s family, but it is very informative, and gives blatant forensic facts: [Daniel Fulkner](http://www.danielfaulkner.com/) I believe that Mumia is guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/11 "2003-12-02T14:31:51Z")
Yes, the police often concentrate too hard on black men. Yes, having been a Black Panther in the past does not mean you yourself are always violent. Yes, Mumia is handsome and has some potential as a writer. None of which means he’s not guilty. He is. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/12 "2003-12-02T15:00:01Z")
Most likely guilty, from what info I have been able to look at in the past years. Which, as Cecil wrote, still leaves the death penalty issue as a separate debate. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/13 "2003-12-02T15:29:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > 5) The French love him. It’s actually worse. [The city council of Paris made him an honorary citizen.](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2001/12/05/international1529EST0686.DTL) I actually was going to open a thread about this when it happened, but never quite got to it. The insult implicit (or explicit) in this action is beyond belief. I almost never support “boycott country x” movements, but this is something that would get me on board. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/14 "2003-12-02T15:29:37Z")
Cecil said: > [@](#): > > The death sentence is a different matter. Remember that Abu- Jamal initially was trying to help his brother. The prosecution said he didn’t fire the fatal shot until he’d been wounded himself. The whole thing was over in seconds. Was this a premeditated crime? The jury evidently was unsure, since it requested clarification on the definition of third-degree murder and manslaughter after deliberations began. It’s likely the death sentence didn’t arise from premeditation, but rather from the killing of a police officer. This is speculation on my part, but many jurisdictions make the death of a police officer a capital crime. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/15 "2003-12-02T15:59:07Z")
And even by Cecil’s remarks, it sounds like Mumia fired first and then fired last, quite deliberately. Now, maybe the officer was about to beat Mumia’s brother. That does not ordinarily allow one to kill anybody. I don’t believe in the DP, but he does deserve it. ---
**Author:** ![Crook\_d\_Dope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Crook\_d\_Dope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crook_d_Dope)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/16 "2003-12-02T16:18:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > > Let us look at the facts: > > 1. Mumia was found at the site of the murder with a .38 revolver. > > 2. The revolver that he was carrying was registered to him. > > 3. Ballistic evidence showed that the bullets in the body were from the revolver that he was carrying that was registered to him. > > 4. Forensic evidence showed that Mumia had indeed recently discharged a firearm. > > True justice would have seen him put down a long time ago. “Fact #3” is false according to cecil. Here’s the link: [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/950721.html](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/950721.html) That’s all you need to know. And perhaps that a veteran court reporter overheard the trial judge say he was going to “help [the prosecution] fry the nigger”. “True justice” indeed. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/17 "2003-12-02T16:32:47Z")
**Crook Dope** If the quote from the judge is accurate what does that have to do with whether Mumia is guilty or not? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/18 "2003-12-02T16:43:54Z")
**puddleglum** , it demonstrates partiality on the part of the judge, who’s supposed to be a neutral arbiter during a trial. Even when the trial is a jury trial, the judge has control over what’s allowable as evidence, what’s allowable in questioning, and whose objections are sustained. An impartial judge can definitely throw a trial into either the prosecutor’s or the defendant’s court. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/19 "2003-12-02T16:46:34Z")
Personally, I’m not sure where I stand on Mumia. There’s evidence both ways. And I’ll admit that the whole “kill a civilian without premeditation=2nd or 3rd degree, kill a cop no matter what the circumstances=1st degree” snookers my internal sense of justice. A police officer is worth more than a regular citizen? ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/20 "2003-12-02T16:56:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crook’d Dope \* > \*\*“Fact #3” is false according to cecil. > > Here’s the link: [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/950721.html](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/950721.html) > > That’s all you need to know. And perhaps that a veteran court reporter overheard the trial judge say he was going to “help [the prosecution] fry the nigger”. > > “True justice” indeed. \*\* No that’s not “all you need to know”. The bullet found in Faulkner’s body was the same brand, unique type, and caliber as the spent shells in Mumia’s gun. because the bullet shattered they couldn’t run ballistics tests on it to conclusively prove that it had been fired from his gun, but the jury deemed that unnecessary. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466.md?page=2)