# Mumia Abu Jamal **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 2, 2003, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466 "2003-12-02T07:23:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sandino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Sandino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandino)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/61 "2003-12-05T05:17:24Z")
Well, this was an “interesting” thread. Mumia is clearly an innocent man and the victim of a vicious racist frame-up by a profoundly corrupt in-justice system. One’s position on Mumia thus acts as a sort of litmus test of one’s not-so-unconscious racism. Why is he clearly innocent? Well, for one thing, **The guy who committed the murder admitted to it.** We have a video of the confession, and a singed affidavit attesting to this fact. The problem, though, is that this evidence, like a mountain of other evidences exonerating Mumia, has never been heard in a trial. In fact, the corrupt, racist, Pennsylvania Supreme Court recently decided that no new evidence would be allowed, such as the confession of Arnold Beverly. Condider also: (1) The presiding judge over Mumia’s trial is a racist pig who was heard to utter, “We’re going to help fry that n–” (2) A suppposed “confession” of Mumia’s presented in court was only “remembered” by the cop at the scene _two months_ after the alleged confession, and other witnesses at the scene denied it having been made. (3) Evidence that could have exonerated Mumia mysteriously “disappeared” from the evidence room. (4) Witnesses that testified against Mumia were coerced into doing so. (5) Witnesses that could have testified for Mumia were coerced into not doing so. and so on, and so forth… The problem, though, is that the persecution of Mumia had nothing to do with his guilt or innocence of killing Faulkner. He was the victim of a racist frame-up since he was an outspoken black militant and journalist that was uncovering evidence of police corruption. One of the most hilarious things I read in this thread was that since the appeals court ruled that the original trial was fair, Mumia was guilty. That is just absolutely fucking hilarious. This is the “justice” system in the same city that blew up the Philly MOVE compound, and then threw the survivors in jail. There is no justice in the capitalist courts. Those of you out there who sympathize with Mumia should be very careful about your position here. In particular, the cry for a new trial is simply a cry for the same racist courts to frame him up again. “Hurrican” Carter, remember, also got another trial. Some people out there have a touching faith in the American justice system. I would recommend that you look more deeply into this case. In addition, do some research on Geronimo Pratt, Delbert Africa, and Sherman Austin, to mention a few other black militants framed up by the racist U.S. injustice system. Free Mumia! ---
**Author:** ![Sandino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Sandino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandino)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/62 "2003-12-05T05:32:02Z")
By the way, if you would like to contribute to the defense of Mumia, send contributions to: [Address removed. – MEB] It is no exaggeration to say that Mumia’s life is hanging in the balance. Contributions are urgently needed for his defense. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/63 "2003-12-05T05:39:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, this was an “interesting” thread. Mumia is clearly an innocent man and the victim of a vicious racist frame-up by a profoundly corrupt in-justice system. One’s position on Mumia thus acts as a sort of litmus test of one’s not-so-unconscious racism. Why is he clearly innocent? Well, for one thing, > > The guy who committed the murder admitted to it. > > We have a video of the confession, and a singed affidavit attesting to this fact. What you don’t have is proof. Cook never left the scene and was apprehended there. It would seem that by accepting fairy tales in his defense, you’re merely offering evidence of your own biases. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/64 "2003-12-05T05:55:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sandino \* > \*\*By the way, if you would like to contribute to the defense of Mumia, send contributions to: > > [Address removed. – MEB] > > It is no exaggeration to say that Mumia’s life is hanging in the balance. Contributions are urgently needed for his defense. \*\* Did you ask the SDMB Staff if you should be soliciting actively for a “Free Mumia” cause, or other related causes, on this message Board and in this Forum? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/65 "2003-12-05T06:07:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sandino \*Well, this was an “interesting” thread. Mumia is clearly an innocent man and the victim of a vicious racist frame-up by a profoundly corrupt in-justice system. Rhetoric and nonsense. There is no evidence of this, wheras there is plenty of evidence of Mumia’s guilt. > [@](#): > > One’s position on Mumia thus acts as a sort of litmus test of one’s not-so-unconscious racism. Why is he clearly innocent? Well, for one thing, > > **The guy who committed the murder admitted to it.** The guy in question made up a story. This sort of thing happens all the time in high-profile cases. Innocent people confess all the time to things they did not do. Mumia’s previous lawyers sang praises about Mumia for previosuly rejecting this ludicrous confession. Now Mumia wants you to beleive this story some 20+ years of keeping silent. That has nothing to do with racism, and it is foolish to suggest that is the case > [@](#): > > We have a video of the confession, and a singed affidavit attesting to this fact. Whoop-dee-freeking doo. > [@](#): > > The problem, though, is that this evidence, like a mountain of other evidences exonerating Mumia, has never been heard in a trial. In fact, the corrupt, racist, Pennsylvania Supreme Court recently decided that no new evidence would be allowed, such as the confession of Arnold Beverly. There was nothing corrupt or racist about the PA supreme court. The Beverly confession was rejected because it is a complete fantasy. It was rejected on the same ground that a babbling lunatic’s stories about mind-control lasers. Actually, the mind control lasers might make more sense than Beverly’s story. > [@](#): > > Condider also: > > (1) The presiding judge over Mumia’s trial is a racist pig who was heard to utter, “We’re going to help fry that n–” Had you actually read the transcript and this thread you would see this is unsubstantiated. > [@](#): > > (2) A suppposed “confession” of Mumia’s presented in court was only “remembered” by the cop at the scene _two months_ after the alleged confession, and other witnesses at the scene denied it having been made. The other witness actually confirmed it and the security report from the hospital confirms it as well. The case does not hinge on the “confession” by any means. > [@](#): > > (3) Evidence that could have exonerated Mumia mysteriously “disappeared” from the evidence room. Alleged, never proven. Got anything specific? > [@](#): > > (4) Witnesses that testified against Mumia were coerced into doing so. The only ‘witnesses’ who say this were not on the scene at all. Some were later all but paid to lie for Mumia. The witnesses at the scene have never claimed coercion by the police despite years of opportunity to do so. > [@](#): > > (5) Witnesses that could have testified for Mumia were coerced into not doing so. Again, no evidence or specifics, like most Mumiac nonsense. > [@](#): > > and so on, and so forth… Thats all you’ve got, huh? > [@](#): > > The problem, though, is that the persecution of Mumia had nothing to do with his guilt or innocence of killing Faulkner. He was the victim of a racist frame-up since he was an outspoken black militant and journalist that was uncovering evidence of police corruption. He did nothing of the kind. He was unemployed, having disappeared from his radio reporter job for days on end with a company car. When he was reporting he covered social issues, not the police. Police watchdog groups in Philadelphia say Mumia wasn’t saying squat about the police when he murdered a cop. He wasn’t even a reporter when he shot Faulkner in the back and face. He was a cabbie. Your “hero” shot a cop in the back and then executed him by pumping bullets into his face. I’d find a better hero if I were you. ---
**Author:** ![Sandino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Sandino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandino)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/66 "2003-12-05T08:29:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Miskatonic \* > **The guy in question made up a story. This sort of thing happens all the time in high-profile cases. Innocent people confess all the time to things they did not do. Mumia’s previous lawyers sang praises about Mumia for previosuly rejecting this ludicrous confession. Now Mumia wants you to beleive this story some 20+ years of keeping silent.** Here is the affidavit of Arnold Beverly, of 8 June 1999, > [@](#): > > I, ARNOLD R. BEVERLY, state that the following facts are true and correct: > > I was present when police officer Daniel Faulkner was shot and killed in the early morning hours of December 9, 1981 near the corner of Locust and 13th Streets. I have personal knowledge that Mumia Abu-Jamal did not shoot officer Faulkner. > > I was hired, along with another guy, and paid to shoot and kill Faulkner. I had heard that Faulkner was a problem for the mob and corrupt policemen because he interfered with the graft and payoffs made to allow illegal activity including prostitution, gambling, drugs without prosecution in the center city area. > > Faulkner was shot in the back and then in the face before Jamal came on the scene. Jamal had nothing to do with the shooting. > > Before the shooting, I was shown a picture of Faulkner and told that Faulkner was supposed to check something at Johnny Ds (at 13th and Locust) sometime in the early morning hours of December 9. > > Two of us were hired for the shooting so that either of us could take the opportunity to make the hit, get the job done, and leave. The other guy gave me a .38 caliber policeman’s special and I was also carrying my own .22 caliber revolver. > > I waited at the speedline entrance at the north east corner of Locust and 13th at the parking lot. I was wearing a green (camouflage) army jacket. The other guy waited on the south side of Locust Street east of 13th Street towards Camac Street. > > While I was waiting at the speedline entrance for Faulkner to arrive at the location, I saw police officers in the area. Two undercover policemen were standing on the west side of 13th St., north of Locust. Also a uniformed police officer was sitting in a car in the corner of the parking lot. They were there while the shooting of Faulkner took place. I was not worried about the police being there since I believed that since I was hired by the mob to shoot and kill Faulkner, any police officers on the scene would be there to help me. > > After a while I saw Faulkner get out of a small police car parked behind a VW parked on Locust Street, east of 13th St. Faulner was alone. He got out of the police car and went up to the VW. I heard a shot ring out coming from east on Locust Street. Faulkner fell on his knee on the sidewalk next to the VW. I heard another shot and it must have grazed my left shoulder. I grabbed at my shoulder and got blood on my hand. I ran across Locust Street and stood over Faulkner, who had fallen backwards on the sidewalk. I shot Faulkner in the face at close range. Jamal was shot shortly after that by a uniformed police officer who arrived on the scene. > > Cop cars came from all directions. Foot patrol also arrived. I saw a white shirt getting out of a car in the middle of the 13th & Locust intersection just as I was going down to the speedline steps. > > I left the area underground through the speedline system and by pre-arrangement met a police officer who assisted me when I exited the speedline underground about three blocks away. A car was waiting for me and I left the center city area. > > The foregoing is stated subject to the penalties of 18 Pa. C.S. Section 4904 relating to unsworn falsification to authorities. > > Signed, > ARNOLD R. BEVERLY This confession, of course, has never been allowed into a trial. The PA supreme court ruled that it would not be allowed. The reason they won’t ever allow Mumia a fair trail is because it was a racist frame-up from the start. Today many of the people involved in the frame up are still working in the government. Also, about your lie about Mumia’s confession. In fact, the “confession” was only “remembered” two months after the fact, and the MO who attended to Mumia wrote on his report that Mumia hadn’t said anything during the entire incident. On the face of it, the idea that Mumia would yell out that he “killed the motherfucker,” while he is lying on a hospital bed fighting for his life, with a cop right there, is absurd. This is like the whole case against Mumia, which is a house of cards from beginning to end. The reaction of some of the racists on this thread, though, I stress again, is illuminating. Some white people just can’t believe that a black militant would be framed up in the U.S. Racism runs quite deep in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/67 "2003-12-05T10:47:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sandino \*Here is the affidavit of Arnold Beverly, of 8 June 1999, I can make up stories too. Ones that make more internal sense as well. Beverly is telling tales. > [@](#): > > This confession, of course, has never been allowed into a trial. The PA supreme court ruled that it would not be allowed. The reason they won’t ever allow Mumia a fair trail is because it was a racist frame-up from the start. Today many of the people involved in the frame up are still working in the government. The reason it wasn’t allowed is because its just a fantasy. Its a ludicrous story from beginning to end. Would you like a list of what’s wrong with it? > [@](#): > > Also, about your lie about Mumia’s confession. In fact, the “confession” was only “remembered” two months after the fact, and the MO who attended to Mumia wrote on his report that Mumia hadn’t said anything during the entire incident. Read up. THe officer did not report the confession a the time. His claim was being dismayed from seeing his good friend shot in the face. The security guard at the hospital did report the incident and it was logged. As for the MO not hearing the confession, that is becuase it took place outside the doors of the Emergency room. Dr. Colletta was not present because she was working inside the hospital. SHe actaully had quite a wait after Mumia’s arrival at the hospital before treating him. > [@](#): > > On the face of it, the idea that Mumia would yell out that he “killed the motherfucker,” while he is lying on a hospital bed fighting for his life, He wasn’t in a hospital bed, and he was hardly fighting for his life. He was struggling with police and initially refused treatment. It took several hours to get a court order requiring treatment. > [@](#): > > with a cop right there, is absurd. This is like the whole case against Mumia, which is a house of cards from beginning to end. And yet he did. THe house looks pretty solid from here. Heck, even if you remove the confession there’s still all those witnesses from all walks of life and that darn physical evidence too. > [@](#): > > The reaction of some of the racists on this thread, though, I stress again, is illuminating. Some white people just can’t believe that a black militant would be framed up in the U.S. Racism runs quite deep in the U.S. \*\* I’ll believe in a frame up when there is actual evidence. Instead of just hysteria, fantasies, and low-rent leftist paranoia. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/68 "2003-12-05T13:19:38Z")
**Sandino** - I realize you generally prefer to ignore factual refutations of your posts, but if you ever change your mind about this, perhaps you could explain something. A cop waits **two months** before he reports Mumia’s confession, so you conclude he is obviously lying. Arnold Beverly waits **seventeen years** before reporting what he allegedly sees, and you conclude he is telling the truth. Why the discrepancy? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/69 "2003-12-05T14:20:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sandino \* > \*\* > > The reaction of some of the racists on this thread, though, I stress again, is illuminating. Some white people just can’t believe that a black militant would be framed up in the U.S. Racism runs quite deep in the U.S. \*\* Just because someone disagrees with you, does not make them racist. I am white, and do believe the black militants Could be framed. That doesn’t mean they all are. ---
**Author:** ![patchbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dc4da7/32.png) [@patchbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/patchbunny)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/70 "2003-12-05T15:21:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sandino \* > **On the face of it, the idea that Mumia would yell out that he “killed the motherfucker,” while he is lying on a hospital bed fighting for his life, with a cop right there, is absurd.** On the face of it, someone transporting large quantities of narcotics giving a police officer permission to search their vehicle is absurd. Can’t begin to tell you the number of times I’ve seen it happen on the TV show, _Cops!_. –Patch ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466/71 "2003-12-05T19:23:02Z")
**Moderator’s Note:** **Sandino** , I have edited one of your posts to remove a solicitation on behalf of a Mumia Abu-Jamal defense committee. From the [SDMB Registration Agreement](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=148527): > [@](#): > > This message board is intended as a medium for public discussion. Do not post spam, including but not limited to advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, solicitations, or other messages primarily intended to promote a cause, venture, organization, event (except Straight Dope-related events), website, or other entity or activity, whether or not money is involved. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mumia-abu-jamal/216466.md?page=3)