# Munchkin Mini Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 13, 2009, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633 "2009-02-13T02:05:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/181 "2009-02-18T13:57:24Z")
My first reaction to the suggestion that I take the Helm of Empathy was “Why should I deprive the Town of my capability to act?” Then I remembered that my powers hamper actions taken against me, and the once-per-Game power basically hampers everyone because they’re so distracted by my performance. I’m willing to take the Helm. After all, all it does is amplify my natural charm and wit, which I can’t turn off anyway. However, please note that I’ll be spending my spare time applying a paint job to it, so it matches my performing attire. A quick read of the Illusionist power means TDP might be the better choice though. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/182 "2009-02-18T13:58:19Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > I propose the total points scored in tonight’s Pitt-UConn match-up. Am I correct that the score was 76-68? I did a quick Google, so I think I have the right score, but I don’t pay attention to these things. The article was dated 2009, so I think I’m correct. Our Seed is 144. Further processing of Chuara’s and my list later. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/183 "2009-02-18T14:02:45Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > My first reaction to the suggestion that I take the Helm of Empathy was “Why should I deprive the Town of my capability to act?” > > Then I remembered that my powers hamper actions taken against me, and the once-per-Game power basically hampers everyone because they’re so distracted by my performance. That’s why I included you with tdpatriots as possible Helm receivers; but I don’t know what item you have (though almost all items are bad for Town). My intention is to have one of you take it this Turn, and the other take it on Turn Two. Comments? ---
**Author:** ![tdpatriots12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@tdpatriots12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdpatriots12)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/184 "2009-02-18T14:42:24Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Hello Hello Hello > > I’d like MHaye’s and tdpatriot’s opinion on accepting storyteller’s item this Turn. I’m kind of shocked that tdpatriots showed up with a one line post and didn’t even acknowledge that we had been talking about it. I don’t expect everyone to post as much as me, but a happy medium would be nice. > > Can we zap all the lurkers on Tuesday please? As I’ve said at least once, I’m in the middle of moving into a new place. I may be new to Mafia relative to other players, but even I know that temporary drops in participation due to RL are going to happen. The Turn doesn’t end until Friday and there is plenty of time left to discuss what to do with **story’s** item. So on that note, I’ll accept the item if the town thinks it is wise for me to do so. My powers are solo by their nature so the town wouldn’t be losing any particularly important team abilities if I have to use _Accept Item_ tonight. The questions is what will we do with it after it’s gone from me to **MHaye**? Are we going to have another conversation on Turn Two regarding what **tdpats** and **MHaye** should do with the helm? Basically, what’s the plan, assuming I take it? Hope I’m town? What I’m thinking is it just sets me (or anyone else expecting to end up with the item on the following turn) up to be Cursed. I’m trying to find it in the rules, but if the items of Cursed/otherwise dead players end up in the hoard, what’s stopping scum from cursing me tonight, waiting for me to die, then just grabbing the Helm from the pile the next turn? Seems just as much of a danger then as **story** putting it in the hoard now. Or doing the same to **Mhaye** on his possession? I won’t be able to use my defensive power to protect myself from this during those two turns. I have no issues going down for the cause, I’d just like to raise that point while I go look in the thread to see if this has been answered yet. It seems _somewhat_ unnecessary to expose so many town players for the sake of one item, however bloody annoying it can make things. Further, the item doesn’t grant abilities that mirror my own at all. **MHaye** yes. Illusionist is more like a doctor/busdriver. All these hangups aside, I do see the logic of having it moved around, I’m just not sure how long it will work practically before the scum just kill one of us off and take it. And then we’re back to where we started, right? Also, I think if we seriously consider this, knowledge of _my_ item would potentially be useful - but in that event I’d prefer a mass claim of items (despite the high probability some folk would be lying). ---
**Author:** ![tdpatriots12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@tdpatriots12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdpatriots12)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/185 "2009-02-18T14:45:15Z")
> [@tdpatriots12](#): > > Further, the item doesn’t grant abilities that mirror my own at all. **MHaye** yes. Illusionist is more like a doctor/busdriver. Well, they kind of do. It reflects any magical action that _fails_ back on the originator. Just had to go check the rules printout again to see that Investigating was a magical action. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/186 "2009-02-18T15:56:53Z")
[Seed is 144, range 1-12](http://www.random.org/sequences/?min=1&max=12&format=html&rnd=id.144) 3 6 7 10 2 9 5 12 1 11 4 8 Chucara 03. Human Thief Darth Sensitive 06. Dwarf Paladin Zsofia 07. Half-Elf Fighter storyteller0910 10. Elf Monk sinjin 02. Half-Orc Illusionist tdpatriots12 09. Halfling or Gnome Magic-User ShadowFacts plus 14. Half-Elf Cleric sachertorte sachertorte 05. Human Bard MHaye 12 (sub 13) 13. Dwarf Thief Hockey Monkey 1. Elf Magic-User Hawkeyeop 2. Halfling or Gnome Ranger zuma 3. Human Druid ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies 4. Halfling or Gnome Paladin Blaster Master plus 12. Elf Cleric Chucara plus 15. Half-Elf Assassin Boozahol Squid, P.I. **Chucara** , please confirm that you are using this list and not the one created a few days ago. **Squid** , please verify that I used the correct seed and list-making process. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/187 "2009-02-18T16:00:58Z")
tdpatriots, Evil is going to kill someone. If they plan on killing the Helm Holder, there is nothing we can do about that. Passing the Helm addresses the “Is storyteller telling the truth?” question as well as the “Where is the Helm now?” question (Not entirely, but for the most part if two semi-random players agree on the whereabouts of the Helm, then we have decent confidence that the Helm is where they say it is). I can understand that you might not want the Helm hot potato, but I don’t agree that the potential cursing of the helm holder is a good reason not to pass the Helm. An acceptable objection is the fact that you will be tied up for two Turns passing around the Helm. I pointed out you and MHaye because I think your powers are less helpful to the Town. If you disagree, you are welcome to say so because, yes, at this point, my idea is to have whoever takes the Helm this Turn, burn another Turn passing the Helm to someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/188 "2009-02-18T16:11:35Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > **Squid** , please verify that I used the correct seed and list-making process. Looks straight to me. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/189 "2009-02-18T16:24:36Z")
So, the day is going to end Friday, right? Shouldn’t we be avoiding last minute voting? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/190 "2009-02-18T16:26:56Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Looks straight to me. But I’m not straight. ---
**Author:** ![tdpatriots12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@tdpatriots12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdpatriots12)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/191 "2009-02-18T16:46:39Z")
I’m not sure this is remotely the right play, but given how unique this game is, and considering how I’d play if this were D&D with a Mafia flavor instead of the other way around… You’re right **sach** that Curses can’t _really_ be avoided. So I did some pondering. I don’t see the need to include **MHaye** in this, tying up powers (of debatable use). Here’s my reason, and it’s going to include a full claim - because why not, if basically the only way I’m gonna get killed is lynching (ie, town doesn’t trust me) or Cursing (which I cannot prevent) or an unlikely combination of item abilities. How? I am a Half Orc (hardy) Illusionist (defense versus magic) which you already know, and Lawful Good. My item is the **Shield of Adamantium** which I am told is a passive power that I exercise just be possessing it. What does that mean? 1. Illusionist enchantments (default class effect) means that any magical action that fails on me will instead target the user. 2. Illusionist displacement (my Turn action) means that any action taken against me or my target (which can be me) is more likely to fail. 3. Shield of Adamantium, unlimited uses, means that any physical attack that fails on me will instead target the user. All this essentially means; target me at your peril. I also assume that Displacement has some effect at hindering Curses, and if not, there’s nothing I can do about those anyway. So here’s what I suggest: Give me the Helm, since it’s unlikely an investigation of me is going to be terribly beneficial anyway. I will then spend the rest of the game using my Displacement power and turtle-up. From what I’m able to figure out, that will at least keep the Helm in a known location and make the ways of getting it out of my hands easier to predict (bussing to a lynch, using Curse, etc) and make Chaotic characters less likely to interfere (is the Helm worth the risk of going through my stacked protections?) Also, I’d be a nice target to absorb the actions of whatever other malicious items are out there since I’m in a good position to protect myself (as there are a bunch of items out there that can lower or diminish abilities, I at least start out with a strong defensive advantage) The only thing I should mention is that anyone who has the **Orb of Healing** could choose to use it on me for this (one) turn because I would have to use “Accept Item.” If a town player does have this item and we aren’t claiming - I wouldn’t recommend telling anyone that you are using it or doing so for obvious reasons. If I’m gonna be using “Accept Item” it’s going to be public knowledge anyway, so protect me or not - it’s up to you - no need to bring it up in the thread. But if I were to take the item, I’d be using my class action from that point on. The short version is that, I know I’m potentially a much safer place to stow dangerous items than the Hoard (especially if I’m protected this turn from Curse), albeit much more temporary. Whether the town chooses to believe me is up to them. At worst, I die anyway (ie, if a scum has the Orb of Healing), which wouldn’t be a terribly big deal given what powers I have. And I could go work on my BSG game since no-one is biting so far at my comod requests lol 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Chucara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Chucara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chucara)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/192 "2009-02-18T16:46:53Z")
sach: Duely noted… Second list it is. ---
**Author:** ![tdpatriots12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@tdpatriots12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdpatriots12)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/193 "2009-02-18T16:50:40Z")
> [@tdpatriots12](#): > > I’m not sure this is remotely the right play, but given how unique this game is, and considering how I’d play if this were D&D with a Mafia flavor instead of the other way around… Just a clarification as to what I mean by this. Essentially, I’m suggesting that I be the team tank. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/194 "2009-02-18T17:13:08Z")
Uh, I think we need clarification on the Orb of Healing. It doesn’t prevent someone from being Cursed, it reduces the chance that someone dies from a Curse. In other words, you use it on someone who is already Cursed, right? BUT! Curse takes effect just prior to disintegration, and Turn actions occur just after disintegration. I guess I’m assuming that the Orb is an exception and it acts before the Curse takes effect (otherwise it doesn’t make sense), but I’ll PM Pleonast and ask for clarification. ---
**Author:** ![tdpatriots12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@tdpatriots12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdpatriots12)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/195 "2009-02-18T17:21:19Z")
Yeah, I had to go re-read that too. It looks like it just prolongs the inevitable. And given that no one but scum know who the target is, it seems pretty useless actually. I misread the second sentence to mean the opposite of what it said, lol. Ie, that it was preventative and not a semi-cure. So all that means is that if we go with what I stated in my post, it basically begs the scum to Curse me immediately because after that who knows what my Displacement will do to that particular method of dealing with me - the others (items, abilities) already being risky. But like I said, it doesn’t really matter if I die by scum, they’re gonna kill some Good character anyway, might as well be me. If the owner of the Orb does want to use it, and I finally have the interpretation of what it does correctly, I suppose as good a time to use it as any in the game would be on me on the _next turn_ presumably after I’ve been Cursed. Granted, that is a big can of WIFOM and relies on how much, if at all, the scum are deterred by my Displacement skill. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/196 "2009-02-18T17:47:01Z")
Pleonast said the Orb of Healing is functions prior to the Curse kill (thus prior to disintegration). No need to use the Orb on Turn One (a waste really). ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/197 "2009-02-18T18:17:27Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > But I’m not straight. Fine. Your randomization checks out. And you’re allowed to date my daughters. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/198 "2009-02-18T18:54:00Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Hello Hello Hello > > I’d like MHaye’s and tdpatriot’s opinion on accepting storyteller’s item this Turn. I’m kind of shocked that tdpatriots showed up with a one line post and didn’t even acknowledge that we had been talking about it. I don’t expect everyone to post as much as me, but a happy medium would be nice. > > Can we zap all the lurkers on Tuesday please? Yes, we can. 😉 Following is my post count as of post 197. ``` 01. Elf Magic-User Hawkeyeop 2 02. Half-Orc Illusionist tdpatriots12 7 03. Human Thief Darth Sensitive 1 04. Human Druid ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies 4 05. Human Bard MHaye 7 06. Dwarf Paladin Zsofia 7 07. Half-Elf Fighter storyteller0910 6 08. Halfling or Gnome Paladin Blaster Master 0 09. Halfling or Gnome Magic-User ShadowFacts 8 10. Elf Monk sinjin 4 11. Halfling or Gnome Ranger zuma 0 12. Elf Cleric Chucara 5 13. Dwarf Thief Hockey Monkey 11 14. Half-Elf Cleric sachertorte 36 15. Half-Elf Assassin Boozahol Squid, P.I. 13 ``` Note that I began the count after **Pleo** posted the official list, and does not include what I considered to be fluff or non-game-related posts. I also sometimes combined two short posts on the same topic into one count (e.g. NETA posts). It’s obvious that one player is dominating discussion so far, which is a bad thing. Not that we all need to keep up with **sach** (I know I can’t) but he is setting the agenda so far, and we have no clue as to his alignment. Equally obvious is that we have 3 players who are either not or barely playing so far. So, as promised: **Vote Blaster Master Vote zuma Vote Darth Sensitive** I encourage others to join me in voting for lurkers. There is nothing to lose - you can also vote for anyone you find suspicious. Let’s try to spur some more varied discussion. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/199 "2009-02-18T18:57:49Z")
As to the plan of passing around the Helm of Empathy, it seems like a lot of turns and actions for not a lot of reward. It’s pegging my KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) meter. What is the benefit of passing it to two different people over two Days? Why not jsut one pass? Does the benefit justify using all the actions that could have been taken instead? I don’t think so, although I admit I haven’t really given it my complete focused attention. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/200 "2009-02-19T00:40:06Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > It’s obvious that one player is dominating discussion so far, which is a bad thing. Not that we all need to keep up with **sach** (I know I can’t) but he is setting the agenda so far, and we have no clue as to his alignment. Equally obvious is that we have 3 players who are either not or barely playing so far. So, as promised: > > Vote Blaster Master > Vote zuma > Vote Darth Sensitive > > I encourage others to join me in voting for lurkers. There is nothing to lose - you can also vote for anyone you find suspicious. Let’s try to spur some more varied discussion. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > As to the plan of passing around the Helm of Empathy, it seems like a lot of turns and actions for not a lot of reward. It’s pegging my KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) meter. What is the benefit of passing it to two different people over two Days? Why not jsut one pass? Does the benefit justify using all the actions that could have been taken instead? > > I don’t think so, although I admit I haven’t really given it my complete focused attention. I support this message and would like to subscribe to your newsletter: **Vote Blaster Master Vote zuma Vote Darth Sensitive** And also: **Vote Sachertorte** A) For his “Good” slip B) Because he is just ringing my bell with all of his posts and admonitions to players about what they should and should not do with their powers and their items. C) For mischaracterizing my calling him out for the above. And then using that as a basis to continue to smudge me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633.md?page=11)