# Munchkin Mini Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 13, 2009, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633 "2009-02-13T02:05:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/221 "2009-02-19T17:32:41Z")
> [@Chucara](#): > > Seriously storyteller? You’re voting me because I voted for someone who is an investigator? If that is how you choose to summarize my voting post, I will leave it to others to determine whether or not you are making an honest presentation. > [@](#): > > Voting for someone for stating their suspiscions is a very bad play for town. Sure, agreed. It’s a good thing I didn’t do that, then. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/222 "2009-02-19T17:54:55Z")
Chucara, what is your game playing experience? ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/223 "2009-02-19T18:04:51Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > This “case” against **sachertorte** is awful. He may or may not be Evil, but I’m going to want to see much better evidence than this before I contribute my vote to lynching a (certain) investigative role. > > I would like to invite someone with a lot of time on their hands to try an experiment. Go back and find all the so-called “slips” of this kind on which we have variously seized. Count up the number of times these “slips” have actually been made by Scum. I will wager $10 that the percentage is less than 25%. > > On the other hand, I will wager that the percentage of so-called “slips” that have caused at least one Scum to vote for the putative slipper approaches 100%. And thus, I am at least as suspicious of those emphasizing this slip as a reason for voting - notably Chucara and sinjin - as I am of sachertorte for making it. > > This is excruciating. Really? _Really?_ **sach** has been promoting _discussion_ on these issues, carefully trying to look at all the possible sides of each possible strategy. This is what we do _in every single game._ Discussion of mass claims of one kind or another has occurred in _every single game._ The conversation was going to happen here; it always does. **sach** brought it up, and has been turning the ideas over, trying to analyze them and generate conversation. These are _good things,_ for crying out loud. What was the alternative? Sit here in silence? Offer no opinion? > > The above paragraph reads like waffling to me. _I’m going to vote for sach, I hate to do it, but gosh, he sure does look Scummy to someone who doesn’t know his alignment, someone like me, I sure don’t know his alignment, how could I know his alignment? But I don’t like the vote, so I’m ready to blow whatever way the wind does._ > > **vote Chucara > vote sinjin** > > Because while sach may or may not be Scum, the arguments against sach are scummy. **sinjin** , for her part, has not accurately represented sach’s contributions in my mind. And again, I think that it’s exceedingly likely that the “good” slip - whether or not it was a real slip - will have generated at least one Evil vote by now. Let’s see if I’m right. (color bleached by me) I agree 100% with everything **storyteller** says in this post. I could have written it myself (you sure you don’t have the Helm of Telepathy, **story**?) I’m not quite ready to vote for **Chucara** or **sinjin** yet, but I very well may. I’m going to let things play out a little more before I decide. In case it’s not clear from the above, I think disintegrating **sach** right now would be a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/224 "2009-02-19T18:06:50Z")
**sinjin** , since when is not defending yourself a protown move? If you are town like you purport to be, shouldn’t you work to get yourself not lynched? It’s one vote, but that’s a completely unhelpful attitude. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/225 "2009-02-19T18:12:39Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > So far the most non-sensical (or perhaps just counter-intuitive…I need to read the post again, I think) statement I’ve read so far is Mhaye’s idea that CG folks are somehow more worrisome than anyone else, but then I’m usually more inclined not to hunt PFKs in the hopes that they decide to make decisions that end up assisting my team…unless they end up outing themselves with a slip and then claiming or otherwise gift-wrapping themselves for a lynch, in which case I’ll not hesitate to lynch them. I’m going to elaborate on this point, and lay down some votes. I think Mhaye’s vote sends a very clear, and anti-town message to any CG players we might have in the game. “Your are going to be considered a default threat to the town, hunted down, and exterminated.”. If that is the signal that the consensus is going to send to CG players, it is a self-fulfilling prophesy. The sort of thing I can see the scum doing to try and ensure that the CG and LG wing is going to have infighting. So… **[color=blue]Vote MHaye** **vote sinjin** **vote chucara** The last two are for the latest developments in the aforementioned drama, and that is my inclination as to where my Day 1 gut is telling me to fall on that debate. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/226 "2009-02-19T18:13:39Z")
**Vote MHaye vote sinjin vote Chucara** ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/227 "2009-02-19T18:19:46Z")
I’m inclined to vote for **sinjin** at this point (and I will if I haven’t changed my mind by tonight) because it does seem to me like he’s going all crazy Tasmanian Devil at **sachertorte** under somewhat false pretenses. Okay, there’s the “slip”, whatever, but I believe he’s been consistently mischaracterizing **sachertorte’s** posts with regards to items. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/228 "2009-02-19T18:22:52Z")
I don’t even know how to go about defending myself here. I thought **sacher** ’s slip was the real thing. He even capitalized Good in the middle of a sentence when describing **story** and **boozie**. It’s not like it was a slip by article. And maybe I did have confirmation bias when I went back and looked at his posts but he was all over the place proposing so much stuff he dominated the whole conversation. Anyway, I can’t take back what I said and no one else has really said much of anything. So if there’s not a better candidate it may as well be me. I’m about as close to vanilla as it gets and maybe town will get some information from my lynch. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/229 "2009-02-19T18:25:42Z")
NETA: The last was a note to Darth. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/230 "2009-02-19T18:29:20Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Theirs’ is the only real drama to be had, and drama can indicate some sort of scum angle. Cookies, Could you provide examples of drama being indicative of some sort of scum angle? ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/231 "2009-02-19T18:33:39Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I’m inclined to vote for **sinjin** at this point (and I will if I haven’t changed my mind by tonight) because it does seem to me like he’s going all crazy Tasmanian Devil at **sachertorte** under somewhat false pretenses. Okay, there’s the “slip”, whatever, but I believe he’s been consistently mischaracterizing **sachertorte’s** posts with regards to items. To be honest, of the two, I think **Chucara** is more suspicious than **sinjin**. First, even though I think **sinjin’s** case against **sach** is hot air, I’ve had a bit of an “over-eager townie” vibe from him. Also, I think scum are much more likely to try to jump on a case already started by a townie. Finally, \*\*Chucara’s \*\*response to **story’s** large post above was…quite twisty. If I do end up voting for one of them (and right now I plan to trim down to one vote), at this point I think **Chucara** is the better candidate. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/232 "2009-02-19T18:58:55Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > I don’t even know how to go about defending myself here. Allow me. As some of you may know, I find that identifying Town during Day One is much easier than looking for muddled scum “tells.” I’m inclined to think Sinjin is not Evil. I have for quite a while now. While sinjin’s posts about me have driven me crazy and she is very much off the mark, I don’t find anything in them that strikes me as particularly scummy. Quite the opposite actually. Pointing out my “slip”: Good doesn’t know that I’m Good, and so will point it out. Evil knows I’m Good and that I’m an investigator, and that I’m unlikely to be killed for it. If you were Evil and knew I was Good\*, would you point it out? Or would you let it slide? Doing nothing is the default Evil course of action. - okay, you don’t know that I’m Good. but even if I were Evil, does it make sense for Evil to make hay about another Evil? I think it makes more sense to let it slide and jump on it later should someone else bring it up. I suppose it’s possible to throw one Evil under the bus to enhance the reputation of the other, but I find that trade questionable to downright silly. Sinjin’s mischaracterization of my discussion posts: I agree that sinjin mischaracterized what I have been doing, and I appreciate storyteller and shadowfacts acknowledging that discussion of all angles is a good thing, not a bad thing. For some reason, we operate on the assumption that scum will try and twist things around to get a Townie killed. To some extent this is true, but such twisting must be subtle and non-obvious. Sinjin’s mischaracterizations on the other hand are rather large and obvious. There is a certain tunnel-vision in them that I do not expect scum to have. I find it hard to believe that an Evil sinjin would be able to bring herself to so grossly mischaracterize what I’ve been saying. Evil would know that I’m Good\*, so Evil knows that I have Good intentions. Outright mischaracterization in this context does not make sense. - Again, I know this, you do not. Suppose I was Evil. Does it make sense for an Evil Sinjin to mischaracterize another Evil player’s posts in this manner? That seems like a recipe for getting a teammate killed. Looks like a bad Evil plan to me. In short, I feel that Evil will act in subtle ways. Sinjin’s posts thus far in the game are the direct opposite of “subtle.” As for her mischaracterizations? I find it far more plausible that sinjin is a confused Goodie (she really thinks she’s right) rather than an Evil character who thinks that by deliberately misrepresenting my ideas in an obvious and overt fashion, she can get me lynched. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/233 "2009-02-19T19:27:51Z")
You’re right, scum would never do that 😉 But I pretty much agree. The willingness to be lynched is generally something that serves as a town tell. It is something that can be faked, and it isn’t really the best way to work on things at this point in the game, as we’re low on Mislynches and not a whole lot of info has been generated. But right now, I have pencilled sinjin down under lawful and pretty lightly under good ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/234 "2009-02-19T20:20:50Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > To be honest, of the two, I think **Chucara** is more suspicious than **sinjin**. First, even though I think **sinjin’s** case against **sach** is hot air, I’ve had a bit of an “over-eager townie” vibe from him. Also, I think scum are much more likely to try to jump on a case already started by a townie. Finally, \*\*Chucara’s \*\*response to **story’s** large post above was…quite twisty. > > If I do end up voting for one of them (and right now I plan to trim down to one vote), at this point I think **Chucara** is the better candidate. You do have a good point - **Chucara** kind of slid in under the radar as a cheerleader once fur started to fly, which is scummy behavior (although not everybody who does that, obviously, is scum. It’s possible to just agree with somebody.) ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/235 "2009-02-19T20:27:50Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Cookies, > Could you provide examples of drama being indicative of some sort of scum angle? I’m not going to give you specifics and cite links to posts, but in my experience drama has surrounded: scum fighting with scum false claims/counter-claims scum pursuing town (with one or both being stubbornly dogged and persistent) town pursuing scum (with one or both being stubbornly dogged and persistent) Please note my use of “can” in the statement that you quoted. I’m also more suspicious of Chucara than of sinjin at this point for many of the reasons that have already been stated. I may consider removing my vote on sinjin. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/236 "2009-02-19T20:30:14Z")
NETA: I have not explicitly stated it as such, but scum can also be opportunistic with drama, and specifically town-on-town drama. Which is just another way of summarizing the views that rank Chucara’s behavior as potentially scummier than sinjin’s. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/237 "2009-02-19T20:44:48Z")
Before I forget; unvote Darth Sensitive Because he has been participating. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/238 "2009-02-19T20:49:04Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I’m going to elaborate on this point, and lay down some votes. > > I think Mhaye’s vote sends a very clear, and anti-town message to any CG players we might have in the game. “Your are going to be considered a default threat to the town, hunted down, and exterminated.”. If that is the signal that the consensus is going to send to CG players, it is a self-fulfilling prophesy. The sort of thing I can see the scum doing to try and ensure that the CG and LG wing is going to have infighting. > > So… > > **[color=blue]Vote MHaye** > **vote sinjin** > **vote chucara** > > The last two are for the latest developments in the aforementioned drama, and that is my inclination as to where my Day 1 gut is telling me to fall on that debate. “Mhaye’s vote” should read “Mhaye’s post”. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/239 "2009-02-19T21:06:21Z")
I am getting more of a town vs town vibe from sach and sinjin than anything else, but that’s just my gut feeling. I’m going to start voting with a poke’em till he posts vote. **Vote BlasterMaster** ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/240 "2009-02-19T21:22:31Z")
As we are now down to less than 24 hours, I need to start focusing my list. **Unvote Darth Sensitive** Not that he’s necessarily contributed a whole lot, but I’ve got to start somewhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633.md?page=13)