# Munchkin Mini Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 13, 2009, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633 "2009-02-13T02:05:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/641 "2009-02-24T23:17:11Z")
\*\*Vote Sachertorte \*\* 'cause I know he’s Evil now. Back to work. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/642 "2009-02-25T01:48:16Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > I think we need to play as if one of the first two scenarios is true, lynching only one player and not rushing into a Disintegration that hands the game to the Evil side. We need to keep in mind that not all evil players will want the game to end soon. A lawful evil player, for example, is nowhere near winning. Perhaps, they would like to work with town 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/643 "2009-02-25T02:21:35Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Not Yet. > > So I had this plan. I thought, if I ever get an Evil reading, I’ll pretend that I failed and try and push for that person’s lynch anyway. Then we could generate data based on how people react to the lynch push. I now see my plan is stupid because all it would take is one Evil watching me to know who I targeted and whether or not I was successful. In other words, such a strategy could severely backfire. > > I also didn’t want to reveal early because that would kill the day. Not that we’ve been all that talkative anyway. At least not about who to disintegrate. > > I investigated Hockey Monkey. Hockey Monkey is Evil. Or to be precise, I detected Evil on Hockey Monkey. As far as I know, there are no actions or items that could confuse my reading. Obfuscating items would give me a “Good” false reading or prevent any reading at all, but cannot give me a false “Evil” reading. The only question for you guys is whether or not you think I’m Evil trying to get Hockey Monkey killed. > **vote Hockey Monkey** > > One of us is going to be disintegrated. I honestly don’t know what to do about this. Obviously, I believed that **Hockey Monkey** was likely to be Evil, thus my case against her and my vote. So this investigation is just perfect. We just lost 2 Lawful Good players, we need to lynch Evil, and **sach** comes up with an Evil reading on exactly who I would want him to. I should be ecstatic, but why do I suddenly feel like a mouse looking at that huge, piece of cheese just sitting there waiting to be eaten? Gad, I hate this game sometimes… ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/644 "2009-02-25T02:46:29Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > We need to keep in mind that not all evil players will want the game to end soon. A lawful evil player, for example, is nowhere near winning. Perhaps, they would like to work with town 😉 You may, or may not, be correct. The odds favour there being three surviving Chaotic players (±1). There is no guarantee that any of them are also Evil. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/645 "2009-02-25T02:49:55Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > Booadio, votes must be in Blue. Why is it that I can’t get voting right this game? **vote: what’s-his-tits** ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/646 "2009-02-25T02:52:30Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > You may, or may not, be correct. > > The odds favour there being three surviving Chaotic players (±1). There is no guarantee that any of them are also Evil. Yeah, but Evil doesn’t know who’s who, either. And a Chaotic Good character would stop a Lawful Evil win, too. I guess at the point they control the vote, they can just systematically vote off all the remaining Good players, including any CG ones. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/647 "2009-02-25T02:52:41Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > You may, or may not, be correct. > > The odds favour there being three surviving Chaotic players (±1). There is no guarantee that any of them are also Evil. Maths is not my thing, but this strikes me as a bit of a contradiction, at least in how you’ve phrased it, especially when you take into account that we have 2 confirmed dead CGs, which (as I’ve stated previously) I think decrease the probability of there being many more. How are you interpreting these odds such that they favor a certain distribution of one alignment variable while simultaneously not guaranteeing the distribution of another alignment variable? ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/648 "2009-02-25T02:53:21Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > You may, or may not, be correct. > > The odds favour there being three surviving Chaotic players (±1). There is no guarantee that any of them are also Evil. What - did you forget the words to the song? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/649 "2009-02-25T06:00:53Z")
If someone put a dirk to my throat and forced me to pick right now, I’d vote for sachertorte, but I’m going to do a re-read of his posts before I do anything else. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/650 "2009-02-25T09:31:40Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > What - did you forget the words to the song? 😉 Can’t I take a breath every now and again? > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Maths is not my thing, but this strikes me as a bit of a contradiction, at least in how you’ve phrased it, especially when you take into account that we have 2 confirmed dead CGs, which (as I’ve stated previously) I think decrease the probability of there being many more. > > How are you interpreting these odds such that they favor a certain distribution of one alignment variable while simultaneously not guaranteeing the distribution of another alignment variable? Because the ethical alignment of each player was determined individually. As the rules say in describing the setup : > [@](#): > > Each character has two-thirds chance to be Lawful and one-third chance to be Chaotic. The odds favour there being one CE character, but do not _require_ that combination to be present; especially if we wound up with only three Evil characters in the first place. The possibility of there being no CE characters is especially troublesome to me, as it means the Evil group would be presenting a united front to the world, so I chose to point out the possibility. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/651 "2009-02-25T14:00:48Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Gad, I hate this game sometimes… Yeah. Me too. I’ve voted for Hockey Monkey because of my investigation. It’s up to the rest of you to determine whether or not I’m lying. I’ll answer any questions you might have, but at this point, you need to read and decide for yourselves. Also, if anyone watched me last night and can confirm that I successfully targeted Hockey Monkey, I would appreciate it. All these items are really irking me. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/652 "2009-02-25T16:07:56Z")
Hi, just reread the end of Turn one again and I am arrrrgghhhhhh. So **Shadowfacts** investigated **Hawkeyeop** Turn1 and found him to be Lawful Good and **sachertorte** investigated **Hockey Monkey** Turn 2 and found her to be Evil. And at the end of Turn 2 now known townie, **storyteller** ####, was advocating for an insta-lynch of both **sachertorte** and **Hawkeyeop**. I’ld really like to know why **Shadowfacts** didn’t reveal **Hawks** goodness on Turn 2 while advocating that everyone else reveal their actions. It would have saved one of the investigator’s a wasted investigation and we wouldn’t have come so close to lynching townie **Hawk** (if he is town). Note I realize that Shadow missed the end of the day because of RL, but he could have posted his results earlier. I’m torn on **sachertorte**. I’m glad he understood what I was saying about **Cookies** even though no one else seems to (I blame the wine and cold/flu meds combo). But it scares the crap out of me that he has been defending me so hard and seems so sure I’m Town, just like he was sure of Story’s and Boozies towniness on Turn one. I know they can’t all be scum, but damn this game is hard. unvote Cookies I have to think about this. Time to go out and get some sun. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/653 "2009-02-25T16:13:37Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > Can’t I take a breath every now and again? > The possibility of there being no CE characters is especially troublesome to me, as it means the Evil group would be presenting a united front to the world, so I chose to point out the possibility. Even so the scum wouldn’t know there weren’t any chaotic players in their number. > [@sinjin](#): > > I’ld really like to know why **Shadowfacts** didn’t reveal **Hawks** goodness on Turn 2 while advocating that everyone else reveal their actions. It would have saved one of the investigator’s a wasted investigation and we wouldn’t have come so close to lynching townie **Hawk** (if he is town). Note I realize that Shadow missed the end of the day because of RL, but he could have posted his results earlier. As an addendum, I’d like to know why Shadow revealed that info early today. If you weren’t going to reveal it at the beginning/middle of yesterday, what changed at the start of this day? ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/654 "2009-02-25T18:40:38Z")
I’ve been thinking about this and I think I know what’s up. Sachertorte garnered enough suspicion yesterday and then Storyteller implicates him in his death throes, and he figures a preemtive strike is in order. I am a handy target and he thinks I’ll be easy to get Disintegrated because I took some heat yesterday. We must be at or close to Lynch or Lose or it wouldn’t make sense for the scum to try it. As ShadowFacts said, it’s mighty convenient that he’s serving me up on a silver platter today. I hope you guys make the right decision, we get our first Evil, and hopefully a chance at turning the tide. Disintegrating me instead of Sach will probably lose the game. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/655 "2009-02-25T18:55:02Z")
sachertorte: If you’ll indulge me a request, I’d like you to please restate your actions and results each turn, including why you did what you did. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/656 "2009-02-25T19:04:58Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > sachertorte: If you’ll indulge me a request, I’d like you to please restate your actions and results each turn, including why you did what you did. On Turn One I investigated and failed. The target of my investigation was Chucara. The reason should be obvious but I really only had 3 choices. Chucara and I had divided the list. My list includes: Hawkeyeop, Cookies, MHaye, Blaster Master, zuma, Chucara, Hockey Monkey, and Squid. Blaster Master and zuma were disintegrated. Cookies, MHaye, and Squid were not good targets for obscuring reasons. That left Chucara, Hockey Monkey, and Hawkeyeop. I chose Chucara because if I could give indication that he is Good, then his investigations would be more valuable. The investigation failed. On Turn Two I was going to investigate Chucara again. I even sent in my request to Pleonast. I then realized that Chucara might die, so I switched to Hawkeyeop. When the storyteller/hawkeyeop thing was going down I panic switched to Hockey Monkey. I briefly debated switching back to Chucara, but at the time (I don’t remember exactly) I think Hawkeyeop was at 3, storyteller at 2, and Chucara at 2. I didn’t want Chucara suddenly dying with my investigation pointed at her. So I went with Hockey Monkey and unvoted Hockey Monkey at the same time. The result indicated that I detect Evil on Hockey Monkey. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/657 "2009-02-25T19:35:23Z")
Well, I’m not saying **storyteller** is infallible, but he’s a pretty good player, and his smudge on **sachertorte** is tending me towards thinking sach is lying. I did think **Hockey Monkey** was a little “under the radar” in her posting habits, but since I have to pick one I’m going to vote sachertorte ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/658 "2009-02-25T19:38:08Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Well, I’m not saying **storyteller** is infallible, but he’s a pretty good player, and his smudge on **sachertorte** is tending me towards thinking sach is lying. Hell no. Vote for me if you must. But do not do so because storyteller told you to. Find your own reasons. Storyteller also told you to kill hawkeyeop and sinjin. Are you going to do that too? You shouldn’t. Lazy or scum? ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/659 "2009-02-25T19:49:04Z")
Frankly there’s not a lot to go on, and clearly either you or she have to die. ---
**Author:** ![Chucara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Chucara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chucara)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/660 "2009-02-25T19:49:30Z")
Damn… I never really considered that bold a play from scum (if that is the case)… I can certainly see the case against sachertorte, and I still think his play on day one was… weird at least. Not that weird = scum. Hockey Monkey appears to be flying under the radar, but he hasn’t really pinged me this game. I forgot to unvote from Yesterday. **unvote all** **Boozy** : Are you actually voting for someone? If so, I don’t think the voting system knows “whats-his-tits” 😉 I think people should get some votes in early so we don’t end up with a sudden scum rush (if we are indeed at lylo now). I certainly hope we aren’t at lylo, but if we are, scum could easily win the game with some last minute voting. Finally, I’ll still: **vote Hockey Monkey** mostly due to Occam’s Razor, and subject to change. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633.md?page=34)