# Munchkin Mini Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 13, 2009, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633 "2009-02-13T02:05:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/841 "2009-03-03T21:40:58Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > I can confirm that you failed to use magic on her, and that Shadow succeeded. Popular girl šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/842 "2009-03-03T21:42:55Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Oh, fuck. I see now that she dropped her item into the hoard. I figured she had stolen the Helm. Please disregard my above post. Can you tell us exactly what your PM said about her? ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/843 "2009-03-03T21:53:53Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Can you tell us exactly what your PM said about her? You successfully magicked her. Sache failed to magic her. She physically messed about with the hoard. I donā€™t recall if Pleo allows us to quote PMs, so thatā€™s the Squid-translation. I watched Zsofia because she admitted to being Chaotic, and she was one of the people I had on my suspicion list. No other reasons. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/844 "2009-03-03T21:55:15Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > **MHaye** , Iā€™m the only one left who can recharge it, but that would require being deCursified by **sach** , of course. Yes, but itā€™s not worth it. Assuming you beat the Curse, Iā€™d have to pass it to you this Turn (which means you have to Accept Item) then you recharge it Turn Six, and use it Turn 7. We havenā€™t got three Turns. You may have only this Turn. My gut call would have me look at Boozahol right now. I want to think through the reasoning for his attack on DarkCookies, which I distrusted at the time, although if heā€™d said nothing about it could easily have passed off as the side effect of his trap - a pointer in his favour. I may be a while, especially since I need to play catchup in The Split. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/845 "2009-03-03T22:15:09Z")
Turn One Items in the Hoard: Rod of Disintegration (unstealable) 1. Hawkeyeop undisclosed item (Ring if Invis or Amulet of M Resist) 2. tdpatriots12 Shield of Adamantium 3. Darth Sensitive Staff of Command 4. ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies Gauntlets of Ogre Power 5. **MHaye** undisclosed item 6. **Zsofia** Rod of Telekinesis 7. storyteller0910 Helm of Empathy 8. Blaster Master Amulet of Reflection 9. **ShadowFacts** Ring of Limited Wishes 10. **sinjin** Potion of Speed 11. zuma Orb of Healing 12. Chucara undisclosed item (Ring if Invis or Amulet of M Resist) 13. Hockey Monkey Wand of Holding 14. **sachertorte** undisclosed item 15. **Boozahol Squid, P.I.** Cloak of Elvenkind BM and zuma zapped, putting Amulet of Reflection and Orb of Healing into Hoard storyteller passes Helm to tdpatriots Turn Two Items in the Hoard: Rod of Disintegration (unstealable) Amulet of Reflection Orb of Healing 1. Hawkeyeop undisclosed item (Ring if Invis or Amulet of M Resist) 2. tdpatriots12 Shield of Adamantium, Helm of Empathy 3. Darth Sensitive Staff of Command 4. ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies Gauntlets of Ogre Power 5. **MHaye** undisclosed item 6. **Zsofia** Rod of Telekinesis 7. storyteller0910 8. [del]Blaster Master [/del] 9. **ShadowFacts** Ring of Limited Wishes 10. **sinjin** Potion of Speed 11. [del]zuma[/del] 12. Chucara undisclosed item (Ring if Invis or Amulet of M Resist) 13. Hockey Monkey Wand of Holding 14. **sachertorte** undisclosed item 15. **Boozahol Squid, P.I.** Cloak of Elvenkind tdpatriots dies dropping Helm,Shield into Hoard storyteller dies dropping nothing Orb is picked up by MHaye Amulet of Reflection is picked up by Hockey Monkey (ha ha too late!) Turn Three Items in the Hoard: Rod of Disintegration (unstealable) Shield of Adamantium Helm of Empathy 1. Hawkeyeop undisclosed item (Ring if Invis or Amulet of M Resist) 2. [del]tdpatriots12[/del] 3. Darth Sensitive Staff of Command 4. ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies Gauntlets of Ogre Power 5. **MHaye** undisclosed item, Orb of Healing 6. **Zsofia** Rod of Telekinesis 7. [del]storyteller0910[/del] 8. [del]Blaster Master [/del] 9. **ShadowFacts** Ring of Limited Wishes 10. **sinjin** Potion of Speed 11. [del]zuma[/del] 12. Chucara undisclosed item (Ring if Invis or Amulet of M Resist) 13. Hockey Monkey Wand of Holding, Amulet of Reflection 14. **sachertorte** undisclosed item 15. **Boozahol Squid, P.I.** Cloak of Elvenkind Hockey Monkey dies dropping Wand of Holding and Amulet of Reflection Cookies dies dropping Gauntlets of Ogre Power Cookies blows Amulet of Magic Resistance, Ring of Invisibility, Ring of Limited Wishes into Hoard Hawkeyeop had either the Amulet of Magic Resistance or Ring of Invisibility blown into the Hoard Chucara had either the Amulet of Magic Resistance or Ring of Invisibility blown into the Hoard Turn Four Items in the Hoard: Rod of Disintegration (unstealable) Amulet of Magic Resistance Amulet of Reflection Gauntlets of Ogre Power Helm of Empathy Ring of Invisibility Ring of Limited Wishes Shield of Adamantium Wand of Holding 1. Hawkeyeop 2. [del]tdpatriots12[/del] 3. Darth Sensitive Staff of Command 4. [del]ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies[/del] 5. **MHaye** undisclosed item 6. **Zsofia** Rod of Telekinesis 7. [del]storyteller0910[/del] 8. [del]Blaster Master [/del] 9. **ShadowFacts** 10. **sinjin** Potion of Speed 11. [del]zuma[/del] 12. Chucara 13. [del]Hockey Monkey[/del] 14. **sachertorte** undisclosed item 15. **Boozahol Squid, P.I.** Cloak of Elvenkind Darth Sensitive dies and drops the Staff of Command Chucara dies and drops nothing Hawkeyeop dies and drops nothing Someone steals the Helm of Empathy Turn Five Items in the Hoard: Rod of Disintegration (unstealable) Amulet of Magic Resistance Amulet of Reflection Gauntlets of Ogre Power Potion of Speed Ring of Invisibility Ring of Limited Wishes Rod of Telekinesis Shield of Adamantium Staff of Command Wand of Holding 1. [del]Hawkeyeop[/del] 2. [del]tdpatriots12[/del] 3. [del]Darth Sensitive[/del] 4. [del]ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies[/del] 5. **MHaye** undisclosed item, \*helm? 6. **Zsofia** 7. [del]storyteller0910[/del] 8. [del]Blaster Master [/del] 9. **ShadowFacts** \*helm? 10. **sinjin** \*helm? 11. [del]zuma[/del] 12. [del]Chucara[/del] 13. [del]Hockey Monkey[/del] 14. **sachertorte** undisclosed item, \*helm? 15. **Boozahol Squid, P.I.** Cloak of Elvenkind, \*helm? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/846 "2009-03-03T22:27:22Z")
Something is not adding up: I just re-read the Items list and anyone targeting the possessor of the Ring of Invisibility would be informed of the invisibility. We need to know who had the Ring of Invisibility on Turn One! According to my accounting, Either Chucara had the Ring or Hawkeyeop had the Ring. If Chucara had the ring, then I would have been informed that Chucara was invisible. I was not. Therefore Chucara did not have the Ring, or I did not target Chucara (via staff of command), but MHaye has stated seeing me fail in my attempt to investigate Chucara. conclusion: either Chucara did not have the Ring of Invisibility or MHaye is lying. Furthermore, ShadowFacts has stated that he used the Ring of Limited Wishes to investigate Hawkeyeop on Turn One. If Hawkeyeop possessed the Ring of Invisibility, then ShadowFacts would have had a low chance of success on Hawkeyeop and would have been informed that Hawkeyeop was invisible. Does anyone know who had the Ring of Invisibility during Turn One? Oh, and Thanks to Cookies for blowing these items into the Hoard. I donā€™t think we would have caught Chucara otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/847 "2009-03-03T22:39:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Sinjin did not take the Helm. Sinjin stated she would drop a speed potion, and a speed potion appeared in the Hoard. This is not necessarily true. Sinjin had her mojo all built up, and could easily have used her triple action. She could have both dropped the ring, and stolen the helm. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/848 "2009-03-03T22:42:36Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > This is not necessarily true. Sinjin had her mojo all built up, and could easily have used her triple action. She could have both dropped the ring, and stolen the helm. Correct. Somewhere up there in all my drivel is something that approximates that thought. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/849 "2009-03-04T00:08:44Z")
I tossed my item into the pile. I now have no items and am not in the way of a lawful victory. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/850 "2009-03-04T00:18:31Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > My gut call would have me look at Boozahol right now. I want to think through the reasoning for his attack on DarkCookies, which I distrusted at the time, although if heā€™d said nothing about it could easily have passed off as the side effect of his trap - a pointer in his favour. Donā€™t forget he didnā€™t say anything about it until I accused him of offing **Cookies** in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/851 "2009-03-04T03:44:59Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > You successfully magicked her. Sache failed to magic her. She physically messed about with the hoard. > > I donā€™t recall if Pleo allows us to quote PMs, so thatā€™s the Squid-translation. > > I watched Zsofia because she admitted to being Chaotic, and she was one of the people I had on my suspicion list. No other reasons. So everybody wasted actions on me after I came out and admitted my alignment to keep the town from wasting time arguing about it? ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/852 "2009-03-04T03:46:27Z")
Makes you wonder doesnā€™t it? ---
**Author:** ![Chucara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Chucara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chucara)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/853 "2009-03-04T09:09:41Z")
Hey guys, sorry I went AWOL. I had a lot of minor things happen at once, and seeing as I was dead anyway, this game got low priority. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/854 "2009-03-04T10:55:04Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > Donā€™t forget he didnā€™t say anything about it until I accused him of offing **Cookies** in the first place. Yeah, when I found out that Cookies was Good, I decided it wasnā€™t one of my finest moments. That being said, when you started accusing me, I decided to fess up. > [@Zsofia](#): > > So everybody wasted actions on me after I came out and admitted my alignment to keep the town from wasting time arguing about it? Nobodyā€™s ever accused me of being smart, have they? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/855 "2009-03-04T13:39:05Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > So everybody wasted actions on me after I came out and admitted my alignment to keep the town from wasting time arguing about it? My action was only a waste in that the investigation failed. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/856 "2009-03-04T13:57:33Z")
Stealing from the Hoard Theory: Iā€™m not in the best position to evaluate ā€œstealing from the Hoardā€ actions since I have other actions that make a stealing attempt a waste of a Turn. So I have a questions for everyone else. Background: Way back on Turn One I made the suggestion that stealing items was an anti-Town action and that maybe we should install a policy against stealing. In other words, if anyone was caught stealing, we would have grounds to kill that player. The only ones to respond to this line of thought was Hockey Monkey (Evil Thief) and Darth Sensitive (Evil Thief). I attributed their response (against) as being motivated by their role. They made up some bullshit scenarios about when stealing would be pro-Town, but I chalked it up to their being Thieves instead of anything else. Now we know Hockey Monkey and Darth Sensitive to be Evil. Question: How would a townie view stealing in the context of this game? Would a Townie engage in swiping something from the Hoard? Or would a townie avoid stealing actions? Hypothesis: Townies are less likely to steal items than Evil. Evidence: By my count Three items have been stolen from the Hoard - Hockey Monkey stole the Amulet of Reflection on Turn Two (Evil!) - MHaye stole the Orb of Healing on Turn Two - Someone stole the Helm of Empathy on Turn Four (Evil!) Conclusion: MHaye is in questionable company. Counter-arguments: One can easily see pro-Town motivation in stealing the Orb of Healing. It is a pro-Town only item. My question is: Is taking the Orb an action that a Townie would actually do? So I ask each of you, What were your thoughts on Turn Two? Did you consider taking an item from the Hoard? Did anyone try and fail? Did anyone dismiss the idea for fear of being caught and thought to be Evil? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/857 "2009-03-04T13:59:41Z")
Shadowfacts, I would like to know the details of your Turn One Action. Was Hawkeyeop invisible when you investigated him? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/858 "2009-03-04T14:13:23Z")
I assume that the Helm of Empathy was stolen by Evil. I assume that there is only 1 Evil left in the game. Zsofia clearly did not take the Helm of Empathy as she dropped her item. I conclude Zsofia is Good. I am not a reliable investigator this Turn as the Helm of Empathy has a HIGH chance of returning my own alignment. Therefore, unless someone overtly claims to be Good and to have taken the Helm, I will not investigate this Turn. I will most likely use my Cure this Turn. (Barring my changing my mind; Iā€™m flighty like that). ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/859 "2009-03-04T14:26:27Z")
Turn Five Items in the Hoard: Rod of Disintegration (unstealable) Amulet of Magic Resistance Amulet of Reflection Gauntlets of Ogre Power Potion of Speed Ring of Invisibility Ring of Limited Wishes Rod of Telekinesis Shield of Adamantium Staff of Command Wand of Holding 1. [del]Hawkeyeop[/del] 2. [del]tdpatriots12[/del] 3. [del]Darth Sensitive[/del] 4. [del]ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies[/del] 5. **MHaye** undisclosed item, \*helm? 6. **Zsofia** 7. [del]storyteller0910[/del] 8. [del]Blaster Master [/del] 9. **ShadowFacts** \*helm? 10. **sinjin** \*helm? 11. [del]zuma[/del] 12. [del]Chucara[/del] 13. [del]Hockey Monkey[/del] 14. **sachertorte** undisclosed item, \*helm? 15. **Boozahol Squid, P.I.** Cloak of Elvenkind, \*helm? Shadowfacts, even without the Ring, I think you are a better investigator than me for this Turn. If we accept that the Helm was taken by Evil, then your power to determine possession of items will be a de facto investigation tool. By my count: A Good MHaye will have 1 item, Evil MHaye will have 2 Good sinjin will have 0 items, Evil sinjin will have 1 Good me has 1 item, Evil me will have 2 Good Squid will have 1 item, Evil Squid will have 2. The problem of course is that you canā€™t investigate Squid without chance of dying. And MHayeā€™s abilities reduce successful actions. But, if you can rule out sinjin (or me if you really must), then I think we will have this game! Gosh, I really hope you donā€™t die. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/860 "2009-03-04T14:50:19Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Shadowfacts, even without the Ring, I think you are a better investigator than me for this Turn. If we accept that the Helm was taken by Evil, then your power to determine possession of items will be a de facto investigation tool. By my count: > A Good MHaye will have 1 item, Evil MHaye will have 2 > Good sinjin will have 0 items, Evil sinjin will have 1 > Good me has 1 item, Evil me will have 2 > Good Squid will have 1 item, Evil Squid will have 2. Sach, I think you have the count wrong, at least for me. Just because an item is discharged, it does not stop being a magic item. I still hold the Orb of Healing, and the Orb will still count as a magic item. Consider [post=10899652]post 825[/post]; Pleo lists the Ring of Limited Wishes as a magic item in the Hoard, even though ShadowFacts attests heā€™s used it twice. Assuming heā€™s telling the truth (as seems likely) it must be discharged. As far as I know, the only thing that stops a magic item being a magic item is the Rod of Nullification (which explicitly states a magic item ceases to count for victory conditions). Consequently, if ShadowFacts checks me he will find two items. If he found _three_ - then Iā€™d worry because someone would have planted an item on me to frame me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633.md?page=44)