# Munchkin Mini Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 13, 2009, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633 "2009-02-13T02:05:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/921 "2009-03-06T15:59:07Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Then don’t cure me. I am Lawful and don’t mind dying. I would prefer you drop your items than cure me in this instance. Okay. I’ll drop my item (Sword of Dancing). > [@](#): > > You’re wrong about that. According to the rules: “Give Item: You put one **or more** of your magic items back into the Hoard…” (bolding mine) Everyone can and should drop all of their items into the Hoard this Turn, as I said earlier. Okay, that works for me. So do we trust MHaye sufficiently for him to drop all his items? I guess if you trust me sufficiently, then we have to trust him. Unless you decide he is Evil. > [@](#): > > You’re basing these feelings on the reaction to your Nuclear option, which is a mistake. Opposition to the nuclear option does not necessarily mean that one is not Lawful, and agreement does not necessarily mean that one is. I know, because I don’t want to do it and I’m Lawful. (My post is my cite! :D) My opposition has nothing to do with not wanting to die - I’m Cursed, I’m almost certainly going to die anyway. I’m not saying that disagreeing with the nuclear option makes you Chaotic, only that a Chaotic player is less likely to agree with the nuclear option. Asking for me to drop item instead of cure you pretty much proves you to be Lawful in my eyes anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/922 "2009-03-06T15:59:44Z")
If you want me to, sach, I’ll smack the hell out of you with my shield. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/923 "2009-03-06T16:12:10Z")
The shield bash as an even chance of knocking my item into the Hoard, and everyone will see Zsofia’s attempt. If others want 100% certainty that my item goes into the Hoard, I will drop my item, and Zsofia can do something else. If 50% chance is sufficient, I will cure shadowfacts and have Zsofia knock my item into the Hoard. Zsofia, as our most confirmed Town, do you think you have other actions that might be more beneficial? ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/924 "2009-03-06T16:19:05Z")
The question I’m working on is: do we think there are 1 or 2 Evil players left? Let’s look at some possibilities. Resolved: _If there is only one Evil, it must be either **Boozahol** , **MHaye** , or **sinjin**._ Why? Because we’ve agreed that **Zsofia** did not steal the Helm and is Good. And, if either **sach** or **Shadow** is Evil, **Booz** must also be Evil. Does anyone dispute that? Resolved: _If there are two Evils, the possible combinations are: **Shadow/Booz, sach/Booz, MHaye/sinjin, MHaye/Booz, sinjin/Booz.** _ Why? **Zsofia** is out as above. **sach** and **Shadow** cannot both be Evil (b/c of **Booz** as above). Does anyone dispute that? Analysis to follow. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/925 "2009-03-06T16:25:59Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > Oh darn the luck, you’ve outed me. > unvote all > vote sinjin > > Go Evil, I hope I’ve confused them enough.🆒 So you are asserting that stating: “Go Evil, I hope I’ve confused them enough.:rolleyes:” Makes sense for Town to say? Gah! I don’t even know why we’re arguing anymore. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/926 "2009-03-06T16:39:04Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > The question I’m working on is: do we think there are 1 or 2 Evil players left? Let’s look at some possibilities. > > Resolved: > _If there is only one Evil, it must be either **Boozahol** , **MHaye** , or **sinjin**._ > Why? Because we’ve agreed that **Zsofia** did not steal the Helm and is Good. And, if either **sach** or **Shadow** is Evil, **Booz** must also be Evil. > Does anyone dispute that? > > Resolved: > _If there are two Evils, the possible combinations are: **Shadow/Booz, sach/Booz, MHaye/sinjin, MHaye/Booz, sinjin/Booz.** _ > Why? **Zsofia** is out as above. **sach** and **Shadow** cannot both be Evil (b/c of **Booz** as above). > Does anyone dispute that? > > Analysis to follow. Looks clean to me. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/927 "2009-03-06T16:45:03Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > So you are asserting that stating: > “Go Evil, I hope I’ve confused them enough.:rolleyes:” > Makes sense for Town to say? > > Gah! I don’t even know why we’re arguing anymore. I was mocking myself for being so inarticulate.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/928 "2009-03-06T16:48:48Z")
And “Go Evil” is pro-Town is what way? ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/929 "2009-03-06T16:48:56Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > So you are asserting that stating: > “Go Evil, I hope I’ve confused them enough.:rolleyes:” > Makes sense for Town to say? > > Gah! I don’t even know why we’re arguing anymore. Yeah, it makes sense for _frustrated_ Town to say. I’m surprised you of all people don’t see it, having seen you in at least one epic frustration meltdown 😛 In my last game I ended up getting so frustrated that I voted for myself and encouraged others to do the same, in a (silly) bid to get killed, thus proving my towniness, so people would then actually listen to what I said. Seriously, that was my plan, because I was sure someone was scum, I had outlined a detailed case, but no one was listening and I was taking heat for it. It’s extremely analagous to what I’m reading from **sinjin** right now. I ended up calming down and continuing to play and I realize now that that was not the optimal play, as it played right into the scum’s hands, making me look unbalanced and crazy, and they used it against me. But I was so frikkin’ frustrated for a bit there. So **sinjin’s** actions, while counterproductive IMO, are understandable to me. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/930 "2009-03-06T16:51:13Z")
Shadowfacts, do you seriously think sinjin is Town? ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/931 "2009-03-06T16:53:39Z")
And please don’t blame me because your nuke’em plan failed. I made that post at almost 9:00 pm last night. You wanted consensus by 3:00pm. It was made partially because of this: > [@](#): > > If we don’t go Nuclear, can we zap sinjin? Pretty please? Sugar on top and everything. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/932 "2009-03-06T16:55:28Z")
Shadowfacts, you have said “Go Evil” as a pro-Town player? I just don’t get it. I’ve called Town stupid. I’ve said that Town deserves to lose. But I’ve never openly hoped for Town to lose. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/933 "2009-03-06T17:04:00Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > The shield bash as an even chance of knocking my item into the Hoard, and everyone will see Zsofia’s attempt. > > If others want 100% certainty that my item goes into the Hoard, I will drop my item, and Zsofia can do something else. > If 50% chance is sufficient, I will cure shadowfacts and have Zsofia knock my item into the Hoard. > > Zsofia, as our most confirmed Town, do you think you have other actions that might be more beneficial? Honestly, not really - we need to find the last Evil(s), not alignment in my opinion. I don’t have an item anymore, I do have the shield bash, or I can do the things anybody else can do. It may be better for me to bash MHaye, as I could get more than one item. Personally I used to think sinjin was just frustrated Town, but it _keeps going on and on and on_, which makes me think that might not be the case. The meltdowns I’ve seen before were limited in duration and followed by a sheepish sort of reconciliation. I’d be happy voting sinjin or MHaye. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/934 "2009-03-06T17:06:07Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Honestly, not really - we need to find the last Evil(s), not alignment in my opinion. I don’t have an item anymore, I do have the shield bash, or I can do the things anybody else can do. It may be better for me to bash MHaye, as I could get more than one item. > > Personally I used to think sinjin was just frustrated Town, but it _keeps going on and on and on_, which makes me think that might not be the case. The meltdowns I’ve seen before were limited in duration and followed by a sheepish sort of reconciliation. I’d be happy voting sinjin or MHaye. Actually, sach, unless we change our collective minds I’m going to go ahead and bash you and you can try to heal ShadowFacts. It would really suck to just lose on numbers if you could have uncursed somebody. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/935 "2009-03-06T17:06:40Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Shadowfacts, you have said “Go Evil” as a pro-Town player? > > I just don’t get it. > I’ve called Town stupid. I’ve said that Town deserves to lose. But I’ve never openly hoped for Town to lose. No, I haven’t done that. But “Go Evil!” is very different from “Go Evil! :rolleyes:” If you are Town and someone is hounding you as scum, it’s sarcasm, pure and simple. It’s like “Yeah, you found me out, I’m Satan himself. You’ll kill me know if you now what’s best for you! :rolleyes:” I actually do think that’s more likely than an Evil **sinjin** giving up and posting that as an endgame. * * * In other news, I’ve been working my way through the scenarios, and I must admit I’m reconsidering the Nuclear Option. More later. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/936 "2009-03-06T17:30:13Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > No, I haven’t done that. But “Go Evil!” is very different from “Go Evil! :rolleyes:” If you are Town and someone is hounding you as scum, it’s sarcasm, pure and simple. It’s like “Yeah, you found me out, I’m Satan himself. You’ll kill me know if you now what’s best for you! :rolleyes:” > > I actually do think that’s more likely than an Evil **sinjin** giving up and posting that as an endgame. > > * * * > > In other news, I’ve been working my way through the scenarios, and I must admit I’m reconsidering the Nuclear Option. More later. Sinjin didn’t actually say Go Evil :rolleyes: She said Go Evil 🆒 and only retroactively is trying to convince us that she meant :rolleyes: Evil Sinjin was tying to imply that there is another Evil in the mix besides herself. (A lie in my estimation). There was a purpose. A silly purpose, but hey, it seems to be working so who am I to judge? What about all her other behavior? Her grumpiness after we zapped Two Evil in one Turn. Her stance that ‘we’ are about to lose. Her latching onto my tenuous flirting with Perfect Information, yet completely ignoring Darth Sensitive’s clear display of Perfect Knowledge. Her voting for Chucara [762-800]. (If she was so certain that I’m Evil, why did she vote for Chucara and why wasn’t she defending Chucara back then? _Because she knew Chucara was Evil_). Her refusal to look at anyone except for me. Her refusal to look at any data the indicates that I just very well might be Good. Her constant twisting of any and all situations to fit her goal that I must be Evil. Have you known sinjin to behave like this before? Do you really think sinjin is that off of a player? Let’s suppose that sinjin is a skilled player, do you view her behavior in the game as a skilled Townie or a skilled Evil? If I had spouted sinjin’s arguments, what would you have concluded about me? Are you letting Sinjin off the hook because you dismiss all her rantings as a frothy and unskilled Townie? Are you _underestimating_ sinjin? I ask these things, because I had been dismissing sinjin as ‘simply off the mark.’ It’s not even frustration, but crazy logic. If I hold her to the same standard as I would hold to Shadowfacts, storyteller, MHaye, or others, then my conclusion is it is all an act. Simply put, if ShadowFacts had said the things that sinjin has said, I would have concluded Evil long ago. Woo-Hoo Nuke’em! The Nuclear approach does kill many stones with one shot doesn’t it? But can you convince sinjin to go with the plan, that is the question. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/937 "2009-03-06T17:32:50Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Actually, sach, unless we change our collective minds I’m going to go ahead and bash you and you can try to heal ShadowFacts. It would really suck to just lose on numbers if you could have uncursed somebody. Okay. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/938 "2009-03-06T17:45:36Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Woo-Hoo Nuke’em! The Nuclear approach does kill many stones with one shot doesn’t it? But can you convince sinjin to go with the plan, that is the question. Sinjin isn’t the only stumbling block. _Shadowfacts_. He’s already refused to follow the plan. (I know I’ve skipped some of the song, but the title line seems so appropriate right now.) ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/939 "2009-03-06T17:54:41Z")
Shadowfacts is reconsidering. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/940 "2009-03-06T17:57:50Z")
Sinjinb’s actions seem to me to be very similar to those in another recent game, in which she was in a scum team that collapsed through poor play and misjudgement on the part of her known teammates. (Having the Godfather refer to “my scum kills” on the **game** thread does not make for long life). If Sinjin is in fact in Team Evil, the fact that it has happened twice in three games might add a touch to her frustration. I managed to reread Zsofia’s posts last Night. I can see no real reason why a member of Team Evil would drop the Rod of Telekinesis with no pressure to do so. Consequently, she is (imo) the least likely player to be Evil. ShadowFacts claims to be Cursed. If ShadowFacts is not faking the Curse he is (of course) not Evil. This could _possibly_ be a fake-Curse, which means he will survive. If it is, he’s got an endgame plan which stretches out beyond the end of the Turn, or there are two Evil players and the pair of them hope to win this Turn by getting two Good players Disintegrated. We could cope with this possibility by Disintegrating only one player, guaranteeing another Turn to expose their dastardly lies. I don’t propose to vote for either of those two. Neither do I propose to vote for myself. That leaves only three possible candidates; Boozahol, Sachertorte and Sinjin. For the moment I set Sachertorte aside. This is because, if he was Evil, his action on Night 1 makes no sense whatsoever to me (unless he holds an item that can beneficially affect another player with a magical action). He would not have needed to waste his action doing something the outcome of which he already knew with 100% confidence. (Remember, Clerics can only distinguish between Good and Evil.) I am therefore firmly convinced that one or both of Boozahol and Sinjin are Evil. I could vote for one or both of the pair. Because her behaviour is so reminiscent (to me) of her act in Super Mario Bros, I am strongly inclined to believe Sinjin is evil. (Blast. :() **Vote Sinjin** The remaining question is, do we vote Boozahol or not? I’m inclined to play it safe and not take a game-ending risk that hands the game to a skilfully deceiving ShadowFacts, so I don’t vote right now. [oog : I’ve just received an invitation to go out for the evening, so I’ll miss the Disintegration. I’ll be here for another 30 minutes to an hour.] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633.md?page=48)