# Munchkin Mini Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 13, 2009, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633 "2009-02-13T02:05:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/101 "2009-02-16T15:09:39Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Storyteller cannot keep it and not use it. Having the Helm is equivalent to using it (I asked Pleonast). The Helm possessor does not need to use an action to use the Helm. Mere possession makes the Helm’s power active. Well that puts it in a different light for sure. I didn’t think of the Rod of Nullification last night when I was making the list of options. I think the Helm of Empathy should be destroyed as soon as possible. (If someone has the Rod of Nullification that is.) ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/102 "2009-02-16T15:12:40Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Unfortunately, the seeding method must be devised in advance of the seeding. Given a seed one can design the seeding method to give the desired result. Happily, [random.org](http://random.org) allows you to generate a list based on a given seed number. Rysto’s method (he originally designed the concept, I’m pretty sure), while fun, is more work intensive than it really needs to be. Using seed #1 (61) of 1-15, we get - 4 Human Druid ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies - 12 Elf Cleric Chucara - 3 Human Thief Darth Sensitive - 10 Elf Monk sinjin - 8 Gnome Paladin Blaster Master - 11 Gnome Ranger zuma - 2 Half-Orc Illusionist tdpatriots12 - 6 Dwarf Paladin Zsofia - 5 Human Bard MHaye - 7 Half-Elf Fighter storyteller0910 – Helm of Empathy - 15 Half-Elf Assassin Boozahol Squid, P.I. - 9 Halfling Magic-User ShadowFacts - 13 Dwarf Thief Hockey Monkey - 14 Half-Elf Cleric sachertorte - 1 Elf Magic-User Hawkeyeop Anyone can check my work [here.](http://www.random.org/sequences/?min=1&max=15&format=html&rnd=id.61) Storyteller’s already gone, so I’ll go after MHaye. For the search lists, we’ll take the 12 non assasins, and non clerics and divvy them up into two lists. sache automagically gets me, and Chucara and sache can add each other to their own lists. Because Chucara comes first numerically, he gets the top six players, sache gets the bottom two. I would suggest that because sache has stated that whenever he investigates me, he’ll use his ‘Lucky’ ability, he should keep the order in which he adds me secret, hopefully in order to gain some extra protection when he does. That list (with the second generated seed) looks like [this:](http://www.random.org/sequences/?min=1&max=12&format=html&rnd=id.265) Chucara: - 3 Darth Sensitive - 5 MHaye - 7 storyteller - 9 Shadowfacts - 12 Hockey Monkey - 10 sinjin sachetorte - 11 zuma - 8 BlaM - 6 Zsofia - 2 tdpats - 1 Hawkpoop - 4 CookieMonster (note: I bumped Hockey from 13 to 12, as that was Chucara’s number) I took some liberties with the second ordering, I admit. If people think my method of creating those lists might be biased, I suggest we create a firm structure and then pick a new seeding agent: I propose the total points scored in tonight’s Pitt-UConn match-up. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/103 "2009-02-16T15:13:48Z")
EBWOP: sahce gets the bottom six (or bottom of the two lists) ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/104 "2009-02-16T15:18:51Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > There are risks, I acknowledge that. This is why we need to discuss rules and policies. The way I’m looking at a mass reveal is that we identify what items we have and who has them. While this opens the opportunity for Evil to steal powerful items, it also opens the opportunity for players to deduce that a specific player had stolen an anti-Town item from another player. So the question is do the benefits outweigh the risks? > > On a similar but separate thought, I’m wondering if we should treat stealing as a capital offense. That is, if Player X reports an item has been stolen and Player Y accuses player Z of stealing (“I watched Z last night and Z had a physical action on X”) and Player Y is proven to be Good, should we kill Player Z? Is stealing ever a pro-Town action? Obviously if the item is anti-Town we would kill Z, but what if it was some other item? Well, as a thief, I’d say hell no. If, say **Roosh** had the **Claymore Mine** which could be placed outside anybody’s room and used to blow them to hell if they took any action and I thought **Roosh** was scum, I’d sure as heck try to steal the dang thing. Unless somebody can convince me otherwise, I see myself as a limited use roleblocker, and therefore see zero use in publicly forswearing my power’s uses. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/105 "2009-02-16T15:20:22Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > On a similar but separate thought, I’m wondering if we should treat stealing as a capital offense. That is, if Player X reports an item has been stolen and Player Y accuses player Z of stealing (“I watched Z last night and Z had a physical action on X”) and Player Y is proven to be Good, should we kill Player Z? Is stealing ever a pro-Town action? Obviously if the item is anti-Town we would kill Z, but what if it was some other item? Being a thief and all, I would say no. 😃 I am hoping to be able to use my powers to take things from folks we are suspicious of being Evil, or people we are suspicious of being Chaotic. (I’m a Lawful Thief.) Since I’m also a Dwarf, any physical action I take has a greater chance of success. This means I’m a more effective watcher too. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/106 "2009-02-16T15:34:07Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Happily, [random.org](http://random.org) allows you to generate a list based on a given seed number. Rysto’s method (he originally designed the concept, I’m pretty sure), while fun, is more work intensive than it really needs to be. > > Using seed #1 (61) of 1-15, we get > > - 4 Human Druid ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies > - 12 Elf Cleric Chucara > - 3 Human Thief Darth Sensitive > - 10 Elf Monk sinjin > - 8 Gnome Paladin Blaster Master > - 11 Gnome Ranger zuma > - 2 Half-Orc Illusionist tdpatriots12 > - 6 Dwarf Paladin Zsofia > - 5 Human Bard MHaye > - 7 Half-Elf Fighter storyteller0910 – Helm of Empathy > - 15 Half-Elf Assassin Boozahol Squid, P.I. > - 9 Halfling Magic-User ShadowFacts > - 13 Dwarf Thief Hockey Monkey > - 14 Half-Elf Cleric sachertorte > - 1 Elf Magic-User Hawkeyeop > > Anyone can check my work [here.](http://www.random.org/sequences/?min=1&max=15&format=html&rnd=id.61) > Storyteller’s already gone, so I’ll go after MHaye. > > For the search lists, we’ll take the 12 non assasins, and non clerics and divvy them up into two lists. sache automagically gets me, and Chucara and sache can add each other to their own lists. Because Chucara comes first numerically, he gets the top six players, sache gets the bottom two. I would suggest that because sache has stated that whenever he investigates me, he’ll use his ‘Lucky’ ability, he should keep the order in which he adds me secret, hopefully in order to gain some extra protection when he does. > > That list (with the second generated seed) looks like [this:](http://www.random.org/sequences/?min=1&max=12&format=html&rnd=id.265) > > Chucara: > > - 3 Darth Sensitive > - 5 MHaye > - 7 storyteller > - 9 Shadowfacts > - 12 Hockey Monkey > - 10 sinjin > > sachetorte > > - 11 zuma > - 8 BlaM > - 6 Zsofia > - 2 tdpats > - 1 Hawkpoop > - 4 CookieMonster > > (note: I bumped Hockey from 13 to 12, as that was Chucara’s number) > I took some liberties with the second ordering, I admit. If people think my method of creating those lists might be biased, I suggest we create a firm structure and then pick a new seeding agent: I propose the total points scored in tonight’s Pitt-UConn match-up. I didn’t know you could specify a seed with [random.org](http://random.org). That is very handy indeed. This is probably fine. It would have been cleaner to have stated what the two list divide method was before the seed was generated, and especially with arbitrary things like making Hockey Monkey take Chucara’s number, but each action seems reasonable to me, and the only way Squid would be manipulating things is if both Squid and Chucara are Evil. But to be absolutely transparent, I suggest we use the same Squid algorithm (for investigation lists) with the new seed from tonight’s match. Also note, that the first list is for a theoretical item claim order, which we have not yet completely agreed upon. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/107 "2009-02-16T15:35:09Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I intend to investigate you when I use my Luck ability. If you have whatever item it is that you say you have. I can’t. > > I would LOVE for Evil to lie about which items they have. The more they lie, the more chances we have at catching them in their lie. If someone says they have item X, but we never SEE item X, then I would be fine in killing that player, wouldn’t you? > Furthermore, items like the Rod of Divination would be an investigative tool to verify that each player has the item that was claimed. > Also, Cookies can blow a portion of the items into the hoard which will allow for some verification. Bottom line: lies at this point can eventually be proven to be lies. Anyone lying about what they have should be killed. > > Finally, **Good** players are confessing the possession of the anti-Town items anyway. Having everyone claim will not reveal new critical information to the scum. Unless there is a specific item that is only pro-Town if it is hidden and becomes anti-Town if revealed; but I don’t see any of those yet. Bolding mine. How do you know that? Is anyone but me a bit concerned that we have an investigator of unknown alignment making this statement before he’s had a chance to perform even one investigation? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/108 "2009-02-16T16:06:59Z")
> [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > Well, as a thief, I’d say hell no. If, say **Roosh** had the **Claymore Mine** which could be placed outside anybody’s room and used to blow them to hell if they took any action and I thought **Roosh** was scum, I’d sure as heck try to steal the dang thing. > > Unless somebody can convince me otherwise, I see myself as a limited use roleblocker, and therefore see zero use in publicly forswearing my power’s uses. > [@Hockey\_Monkey](#): > > Being a thief and all, I would say no. 😃 I am hoping to be able to use my powers to take things from folks we are suspicious of being Evil, or people we are suspicious of being Chaotic. (I’m a Lawful Thief.) Since I’m also a Dwarf, any physical action I take has a greater chance of success. This means I’m a more effective watcher too. I understand your position. As a mostly magic user I’m not in a good position to see your perspective on this issue. But barring the fact that your main ability is to STEAL. What are the benefits of stealing? If you steal a powerful item, how are we to know that it is for Good reasons and not Evil ones? We don’t know your alignment! If we catch you stealing an item, will you be shocked if we decide to disintegrate you? There is no such item like the one Darth Sensitive surmises. I don’t see how his example constitutes a good reason to steal items. 1) the item in his example doesn’t exist. 2) If someone is suspected to be scum, we will disintegrate him. For Hockey Monkey, How are you going to be suspect someone is Chaotic? To those of us who are not Thieves, these reasons look like weak justifications for using a stealing power. That is, you steal something, then just say “I think X is Chaotic.” What are we supposed to do with that? Also, if we allow you to steal, then we allow Evil to steal with reduced risk. Does your ability to steal have greater benefit than the risks of allowing Evil to steal? After you steal something, will you publicly announce that you did so and why? I know this is sucky. And if I were in your position I wouldn’t be happy about giving up my powers, especially based on the ranting of someone who is an unknown to you. But please consider the consequences of what will happen if you steal items. Hopefully you have an item with a pro-Town power that will be more useful than stealing stuff, though pro-Town items look rare. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/109 "2009-02-16T16:08:28Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > Bolding mine. How do you know that? Is anyone but me a bit concerned that we have an investigator of unknown alignment making this statement before he’s had a chance to perform even one investigation? You are right. I don’t know that storyteller and/or Squid are Good. I do think that they are though. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/110 "2009-02-16T16:19:47Z")
I shouldn’t have used the word “Good” and if you disintegrate me for it, I’ll take the blame. The critical point was that Squid and storyteller claimed possession of anti-Town items. The argument against claiming is that Evil would know where the powerful items are. My argument should have been that these powerful items are already being claimed. Alignment shouldn’t have mattered. But I said it, and you’ve called me on it. The question now is, what are we going to do about it? ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/111 "2009-02-16T16:21:40Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I will try and catch tdpatriot’s _Magic Missile_ in my _Bag of Holding_. So, while it’s been quite a while since Cookie said this, I just reread the rules and saw it. I’m really ashamed none of us called her on it. I thought you didn’t swing that way, babe! 🆒 In other news, I also noticed that the roles were just as randomized as the rest of this crap. Please excuse my slighting of the multiple Clerics. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/112 "2009-02-16T16:36:44Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Heck: if the Lawful Evils could just out their Chaotic counterparts, every Lawful Good, Chaotic Good and Lawful Evil character could all win together, at the expense of the Chaotic Evil characters, if I read the rules correctly. I don’t think the above is true. Good characters require all Evil to be dead in order to win; Evil characters must have equal numbers. The win conditions of Good and Evil characters would appear to be mutually exclusive. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/113 "2009-02-16T16:44:27Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I understand your position. As a mostly magic user I’m not in a good position to see your perspective on this issue. But barring the fact that your main ability is to STEAL. What are the benefits of stealing? If you steal a powerful item, how are we to know that it is for Good reasons and not Evil ones? We don’t know your alignment! If we catch you stealing an item, will you be shocked if we decide to disintegrate you? No, you don’t know my alignment and I don’t know yours. It’s not my fault I’m a thief, I just want to use the power the best way I can. If the best thing to do is to not use it, I’ll consider that, but don’t just declare it to be anti-town. We don’t know yet how all of our powers will mesh together. No I won’t be shocked if I get disintegrated for using it. If I do use the stealing power, it will be because I thought it was the best course of action. > [@](#): > > There is no such item like the one Darth Sensitive surmises. I don’t see how his example constitutes a good reason to steal items. 1) the item in his example doesn’t exist. 2) If someone is suspected to be scum, we will disintegrate him. > > For Hockey Monkey, How are you going to be suspect someone is Chaotic? To those of us who are not Thieves, these reasons look like weak justifications for using a stealing power. That is, you steal something, then just say “I think X is Chaotic.” What are we supposed to do with that? Don’t know yet how to suspect someone of being Chaotic. It may not even come up. > [@](#): > > Also, if we allow you to steal, then we allow Evil to steal with reduced risk. Does your ability to steal have greater benefit than the risks of allowing Evil to steal? > > After you steal something, will you publicly announce that you did so and why? We don’t know yet if there will be benefits greater than the risk. I’ll be happy to announce if I successfully steal something. > [@](#): > > I know this is sucky. And if I were in your position I wouldn’t be happy about giving up my powers, especially based on the ranting of someone who is an unknown to you. But please consider the consequences of what will happen if you steal items. Hopefully you have an item with a pro-Town power that will be more useful than stealing stuff, though pro-Town items look rare. There are lots of powers available to each of us and stealing something may never even come into play. Hopefully you will allow me to use my powers (or not) as I see fit. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/114 "2009-02-16T17:01:24Z")
In reviewing the item list I have new concerns. My first read through was colored by my concern about investigations (specifically, my investigations). Now I’m concerned about death. There are four items that can cause death: Axe of Hacking: Slays a character with a quick thwack in the back with a high chance of success. Once used, the this item will be in the possession of the victim if alive, or will be placed in the Hoard if dead. Unlimited charges. Bag of Tricks: Each time you pull something from this item, one of following things will appear: 1) a friendly dog who points to a random character this Turn with a high chance of choosing a Lawful Good one, 2) a rabid wolf who attacks a random character this Turn and has an even chance to kill them, 3) a fluttering flock of birds and butterflies which reduces the chance of success of any character targeting you this Turn, 4) a randy satyr which will chase and harass the any characters who are targeting you this Turn, with a high chance of preventing them from taking any action on their next Turn, 5) a cute bunny whose soft eyes and fluffy tail soothe tempers and has a high chance of stopping any characters intent on killing another this Turn, 6) a magical black cat who increases the chance of success of all magic effects this Turn. Each turn that you use this bag, an effect is randomly chosen. But each effect occur only once and if rolled at a later time will result in no effect that Turn. Sword of Dancing: When activated, the sword leaps into the air by itself, physically attacking the target of your choice. It has an even chance of slaying that character. If it fails, it will stay active, but randomly choose another character to attack on the next Turn. Once it slays a target or runs out of charges, it will deactivate and fall into the Hoard. Each Turn it is active will use one charge. 1-6 charges. Sword of Slashing: Physically slays a character with a large spray of blood and high chance of success. Everyone will see your attempt. Unlimited charges. Of these, I’m most concerned about the Axe of Hacking and the Sword of Dancing. The Bag can kill, but it kills randomly and has other effects making it less useful as a killing mechanism. The Sword of Slashing reveals who did the killing and is less sensible for Evil to use. That leaves the Axe of Hacking and the Sword of Dancing as my prime concerns. The Axe is the worst, the Sword of Dancing slightly less so. Should these items fall into Evil hands, they will be able to kill multiple times during a Turn. This is very very bad, worse than all that hubbub about Helms and Reflections. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/115 "2009-02-16T17:02:31Z")
Lots of good discussion so far, I’m happy to see, but of course it’s being dominated by a few players only. This brings me to my favorite Mafia topic, one that I am certain everyone will be delighted to hear about from me again: lurking. I submit that there is absolutely no pro-town justification to lurking in this game. Everyone’s roles and powers are pretty much equal, so there’s no “power role trying to lay low” excuse. Also, there is no Moderator mechanism to enforce participation: [Quote=Pleonast] There will be no substitutions. There is no enforcement of character participation. Characters are encouraged to use their own means to enforce play styles and participation levels as they see fit. [/QUOTE] My “enforcement” will be to vote for those who I feel are not participating. Since we have multiple votes, I can vote for those who I think are suspicious AND those who aren’t participating. Win, win. Lurkers beware! I’m sure I’ll take heat for this, I always do, but I don’t care. I feel strongly that people who sign up to play a game should play the frikkin’ game, and there are no in-game excuses this time. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/116 "2009-02-16T17:15:14Z")
I just realized I didn’t confirm my PM receipt - I think I’d written a response but for some reason didn’t send it. So, confirm. Second, I’m still getting my head around this game, particularly the multiple voting aspect and the Lawful and Chaotic win conditions. I’m concerned that the “you need to vote for the person you personally think is most scummy” thing might get lost and bandwagons be easier to pull off, although with multiple votes it’s easier to hedge your bets both as cautious town and as scum… I’m not sure the best way to identify scummy voting when you can vote for multiple people. ---
**Author:** ![Chucara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Chucara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chucara)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/117 "2009-02-16T17:17:18Z")
Shadow: It’ll come as little surprise to anyone, but I agree. In most games I’ve played, there is a higher concentration of scum in the inactive section. However, now that they’ve read this, perhaps they’ll participate more. Then again, this gives us more to work with, so I’m happy 🙂 Short version: vote to lynch lurkers if no better target exists. Don’t lynch lurkers if you have a reasonable suspicion of someone being scum. One thing to note is that a lynch-a-lurker gives scum an easy vote. I don’t know how it works with this voting system though. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/118 "2009-02-16T17:18:23Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > I don’t think the above is true. Good characters require all Evil to be dead in order to win; Evil characters must have equal numbers. > > The win conditions of Good and Evil characters would appear to be mutually exclusive. Yes, but lawful characters merely require all magical items to be out of the hands of Chaotic characters at the end of the game. I think that you can fail to achieve your goal as an good/evil Character, and still achieve your goal as a lawful character. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/119 "2009-02-16T17:21:04Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Since we have multiple votes, I can vote for those who I think are suspicious AND those who aren’t participating. Win, win. Lurkers beware! Missed that in my reread of the rules. **Unvote: Harry** ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633/120 "2009-02-16T17:39:08Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Missed that in my reread of the rules. Yeah, I commented on it earlier (previous page). I think it’s a pretty big difference from previous Mafia games - I’m surprised it’s not getting much notice. As I said in my earlier post, it will behoove ALL of us to demand that people justify their votes, and to Disintegrate people who vote without reasons. Little throwaway votes by scum could easily tip the scales on vote leaders. Also, if people are forced to justify, it will discourage over-voting, and there will be less “chaff” to sift through. There is NO pro-town reason not to be clear, up-front and as detailed as possible with your reasons to vote for someone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/munchkin-mini-mafia/485633.md?page=7)