# \[muppet\] Angel 5x14 - Smile Time - 02/18/04 - WOW! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 18, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875 "2004-02-18T21:51:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875/41 "2004-02-19T20:02:51Z")
> [@Trion](#): > > On a related note, just before the show last night we gat a little promo voiceover. Something like: “This is Spike and you’re about to watch an all new episode of ‘Angel’”. > > What?? Is James Marsters having an identity crisis now so that he actually thinks he’s Spike? Does my local WB affiliate think that I’ll believe they’ve got a _fictional character_ doing promos? Puh-leeze. I thought it was a little odd also, but it sort of makes sense: James Marsters doesn’t have an English accent, but Spike does. If he did the promo as James Marsters, in his own voice, probably a lot of people wouldn’t get who he was. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875/42 "2004-02-19T20:32:33Z")
What **Pepperlandgirl** wrote got me thinking. This could easily have been just a throw-away, stand-alone, gimmicky episode, where the scriptwriters were tossing around ideas and came up with “Hey, let’s transform Angel into a puppet - oh the hilarity”. Except, they didn’t. Most of the characters developed a bit, relationships and alliances changed slightly. The puppet thing was the monster o’ the week, but the ongoing story about the MoG kept moving. Brilliant storytelling. Sad as I am to see the show being cancelled, there will come a point where every show jumps the shark. Maybe this will spare us from the Horrors of BtVS S.6+7 (not all of the eps, but a full third, I think.) and let this show go out while it’s on top. I’m not totally sure there is much more to the story of Angel beyond this season. I think there is milage left in the Buffyverse, _sans_ Buffy, but what that’d be, I’m too tired to speculate about right now. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875/43 "2004-02-19T21:21:30Z")
Heh. So, last night, I’m lying on the futon, in a drug-and-flu- induced haze, flipping channels and waiting for West Wing. Stopped on a different channel, and apparently dozed off. Angel was on when I woke up. I’ve watched it very occasionally in the past, so really had no idea who most of the characters were. But there was enough self-contained exposition to make it amusing, at least. Question: Who was the guy who needed a new car who (rather pitifully) got his ass kicked by PuppetAngel? Don’t remember him from the handful of other episodes I’ve caught. Also, was it just me or did the Evil Puppet guy’s moans when the kids were touching the screen sound very…wrong? Also, (final question, I swear) why was Angel still a puppet at the end? Sorry if I missed that, I was sort of Nyquil-ed out at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875/44 "2004-02-19T21:31:57Z")
“Okay, yes I’m a puppet! That doesn’t mean you people don’t have jobs to do!” – That just killed me. About Fred & Wes: Fred’s romantic interest in Wes seemed to come about very suddenly. And with the promo for next week, it puts me in mind of the Willow & Tara fiasco - get them back together very abruptly, but just in time to kill off Tara. I’m worried that ME might be setting up a similar scenario and kill off Fred. Say it an’t so! And, it seems obvious to me that Gunn’s sudden loss of his implant, and the bargain he made to get it back, will have something to do with Fred’s predicament. That also made me think about the episode from last season with Fred’s old college professor whom she & Gunn secretly killed. That plotline seemed to completely disappear in the whole Beast/evil Cordy/Conner/Jasmine arc. Did I miss an episode in which they resolved it? Did their evil deed get exposed? Or was it simply a device to break up Fred & Gunn? ---
**Author:** ![Chastain86](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Chastain86](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chastain86)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875/45 "2004-02-19T22:14:28Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > Also, (final question, I swear) why was Angel still a puppet at the end? Sorry if I missed that, I was sort of Nyquil-ed out at that point. No need for spoiler boxes since the show’s already aired. Angel said the effects would wear off, but it would take 2-3 days. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875/46 "2004-02-19T22:21:26Z")
[QUOTE=NinjaChick] Question: Who was the guy who needed a new car who (rather pitifully) got his ass kicked by PuppetAngel? Don’t remember him from the handful of other episodes I’ve caught. QUOTE] That’s Spike, new to the Angel cast this year but long timer on BtVS. He and Angel go way back, Spike (a vamp) has killed two Slayers in his time, but now has a soul and is somewhat of a thorn in Angel’s side. There’s lots more, but not really relevant to this episode. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875/47 "2004-02-19T23:43:31Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > Though Wes fighting the big purple puppet was rather funny in a surreal sorta way. The way the big purple figure moved, with kind of an awkward hand-waving waddle, made me think about that background cameo Joss did in season two as the dancing demon behind Lorne’s mom. We checked the credits at the end to see if might actually have been Joss inside the purple suit, which would have been hilarious, but nothing. Of course, they didn’t say it _wasn’t_ him, either. Ah well. Just idle and somewhat amusing speculation. And yeah, this episode _rocked._ ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875/48 "2004-02-20T00:02:15Z")
[QUOTE=Telemark] > [@NinjaChick](#): > > Question: Who was the guy who needed a new car who (rather pitifully) got his ass kicked by PuppetAngel? Don’t remember him from the handful of other episodes I’ve caught. > QUOTE] > That’s Spike, new to the Angel cast this year but long timer on BtVS. He and Angel go way back, Spike (a vamp) has killed two Slayers in his time, but now has a soul and is somewhat of a thorn in Angel’s side. There’s lots more, but not really relevant to this episode. Ah. Gracias. I strongly disliked him on the basis of A: getting his ass kicked around by a puppet, and B: having absolutely no relevance to the plot. But, uh - why does he get a free car? ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875/49 "2004-02-20T00:28:09Z")
Why does he get a free car? Probably because he wrecked or lost the Viper, and Angel has a plethora of cars in his personal collection (12, I think) that came with the W&H deal. Also, if Angel gives Spike a car that means Spike will be driving said car and not hanging out in the office getting underfoot and being smart ass, so it’s a win-win situation for Angel. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875/50 "2004-02-20T01:27:49Z")
Also, since Spike is apparently still fighting evil freelance, a car comes in very handy when it comes to getting to where the evil is. I think since Lindsay is out of the picture, Angel would probably be willing to help Spike out with transportation, although the Viper was, for all intents and purposes, stolen. But I don’t see Spike as a Viper guy anyway. I see him more as a De Soto man. Rembember the De Soto? Whatever happened to the De Soto? I miss the De Soto. I think the Spike/Puppet Angel fight was the best fight scene in the history of television. Spike getting his ass kicked by a puppet. Who could ask for more? Best line of the episode- Nina waking up amidst the stuffing and saying, “Oh, God, I ate him!” That was priceless. And walking out of the room holding hands with Puppet Angel was just so sweet. Oh, and Gunn did a bad, bad thing. That dude has become waaayyyyy too happy with his new job. It’s going to bite him in the ass. You just wait. As far as Lorne not getting any action, hey, I’m happy to see him having actual lines that aren’t said into the cell phone that seemed to be permanently stuck to his ear earlier in the season. I hadn’t heard that the show is definitely being cancelled. I knew it was still on thin ice, but I still had hopes for a sixth season. There have been so many great episodes so far, the rest good, and not a single dud, I can’t believe the WB is cancelling it. Idiots. Well, maybe there will be a Spike-centered spinoff. I can dream, can’t I? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875/51 "2004-02-20T01:49:09Z")
> [@Thea Logica](#): > > I think the Spike/Puppet Angel fight was the best fight scene in the history of television. My favorite part was when Angel bit onto Spike’s arm and Spike swopped him against the wall. High-_lair_-ious. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875/52 "2004-02-20T01:57:42Z")
Okay, crow-eating time. I said in one of the threads about _Angel_ being cancelled that I thought maybe it was time for it to go. I was wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I’m the Mayor of Wrongville. I think what the show really needs now is to not be on the WB. I’d thought the show and the characters were just tired, but that’s clearly not the case. I loved this episode! Almost as much as the Mexican wrestling episode, and that’s really saying something. Looking at this thread, its interesting how many people have posted who don’t watch the show and just happened to catch this episode. Hopefully, there was an epidemic of that last night that will be reflected in the Nielsens. Although, knowing how smart TV executives are, that’ll probably just lead to them leaning on Joss to put more puppets in the show. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875/53 "2004-02-20T02:06:34Z")
I agree with you, **Miller** , ME’s focus shined through in this ep and if **plg** is to be believed, the whole season’s arc will show it, too. The show should go on. My problem is that I don’t think UPN is or could be the network for it, and I don’t see anyone else picking it up. Moving to UPN would cast a shadow over the series after the way BtVS played there (I liked the hell out of what I saw of season 6, but I’m probably in the minority). Where else could it go? Wait, who is running Angel in syndication? I wonder if they’d like any original programming from Joss & Co… ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875/54 "2004-02-20T02:48:10Z")
You guys got it all wrong! It wasn’t, “And I can take off my nose.” It was, “Abd I can dake obb my doze.” Too much fun for words, folks… ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875/55 "2004-02-20T03:07:13Z")
I think the SciFi Channel should pick it up. They picked up _Stargate_. I dunno. I can hope too. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875/56 "2004-02-20T03:28:32Z")
> [@erislover](#): > > I agree with you, **Miller** , ME’s focus shined through in this ep and if **plg** is to be believed, the whole season’s arc will show it, too. The show should go on. My problem is that I don’t think UPN is or could be the network for it, and I don’t see anyone else picking it up. Moving to UPN would cast a shadow over the series after the way BtVS played there (I liked the hell out of what I saw of season 6, but I’m probably in the minority). I don’t know about that. Seems from what I’ve seen on the boards, most of the blame for the last two season of Buffy went to the show’s writers, Marti Noxon in particular. I’ve never seen anyone blame UPN, nor heard any reason they _should_ be blamed. They gave the show a lot more freedom than the WB did. Such as, Willow and Tara actually having sex. IIRC, on WB they never even kissed until “The Body,” and that was in a strictly non-erotic/romantic context. The real question is, how badly does UPN feel they got burned on the _Buffy_ deal, and would that make them resistant to giving _Angel_ a chance, too? Besides, if the choice is “UPN Angel” or “no Angel at all,” I know which one I’d pick. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875/57 "2004-02-20T03:39:46Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The real question is, how badly does UPN feel they got burned on the _Buffy_ deal, and would that make them resistant to giving _Angel_ a chance, too? That’s exactly what I meant. Sorry I wasn’t more clear! While you and I might see the root causes of the show’s problems, UPN might just see the possibility of a money pit. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875/58 "2004-02-20T03:44:00Z")
Oh, I see I didn’t mention that at all. Well, I meant to make that post longer and mention that 😛 The two UPN factors are 1) UPN being a little weak-kneed at the prospect, and 2) potential fan impressions that moving will tank Angel the same way it did Buffy. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875/59 "2004-02-20T03:48:34Z")
Come to think of it, _did_ UPN get burned when they picked up _Buffy_? The fan reaction turned out to be very negative, but did the show earn them money? If they made a profit off of the deal, then I doubt they care what anyone actually thought about the final product. ---
**Author:** ![sciguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@sciguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciguy)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875/60 "2004-02-20T05:22:18Z")
Well, a friend came in from out of town last night, so I had to tape it, just finished (after avoiding this thread for fear of spoilers). Wow. It definitely wasn’t just a “gimmick” show, there was actual plot, thwarting of evil-doers, and the arc got progression too. And some great moments: the “power walk” with the sword slung over puppet-Angel’s shoulders had me rolling, Gunn’s slip-ups (section 5c…in chapter…of the…TV thingy!) leading to his getting more into the pocket of the Senior Partners, Wes’s condescention to Angel about missing were-chick’s signals (while he in turn misses Fred’s). Speaking of Greg the Bunny, the Smile Time set really reminded me of the set on that show. Was that just me? Must have Angel puppet! Regular and vamp! For the most part, it didn’t really look much like David Boreanz, although the eyes and “stuck up poofy hair” were pretty spot-on. And I’ve \*still \* got the self-esteem song stuck in my head. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/muppet-angel-5x14-smile-time-02-18-04-wow/229875.md?page=4)