# Murder - but not really... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 7, 2007, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-but-not-really/425523 "2007-11-07T07:24:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-but-not-really/425523/1 "2007-11-07T07:24:56Z")
Inspired by an episode of Cold Case. What would the killer be likely to be charged with in each of the following scenarios:[ul][li]They give a suicidal person a means with which to take their own life - not for altruistic motives, but for gain, for example.[_]They persuade a non-suicidal person that life is not worth living to the point where they take their own life.[_]They persuade the non-suicidal person to do something during the course of which they are sure to die (e.g. swim where there are riptides, go into the desert without sufficient water, etc)[/ul][/li] Hoping that there will be a semi-factual answer to this, otherwise it will become rather IMHO-ish. Grim ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-but-not-really/425523/2 "2007-11-07T07:41:56Z")
Section 120.30 of the New York State Penal Code: Promoting a suicide attempt A person is guilty of promoting a suicide attempt when he intentionally causes or aids another person to attempt suicide. Promoting a suicide attempt is a class E felony. ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-but-not-really/425523/3 "2007-11-07T08:50:03Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Promoting a suicide attempt is a class E felony. [/QUOTE] How does “Class E” stack up against other crimes (murder, kidnapping, tax evasion)? Grim ---
**Author:** ![Flipshod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f19dbf/32.png) [@Flipshod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flipshod)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-but-not-really/425523/4 "2007-11-07T13:40:32Z")
The charge would depend on the facts of the case, but generally if you “persuade” someone to do something, your criminal liability is equal to that person’s actions under whatever “conspiracy” statutes are present. See, for example how easily Charles Manson was charged with murder for “persuading” some other folks to commit murder. That said, unless the prosecutor had some amazing evidence that you intended to do someone harm by overtaking their free will and sending them off into a perilous desert, depressed, with a handgun and a single bullet, then I’m not seeing a criminal charge. And if there was a charge it would likely be some catch-all like reckless endangerment or something. Civil wrongful death charges are more believable, but it would depend on the facts. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-but-not-really/425523/5 "2007-11-07T13:59:45Z")
[QUOTE=grimpixie] How does “Class E” stack up against other crimes (murder, kidnapping, tax evasion)? [/QUOTE] New York divides felonies into five classes, with A being the worst and E being the least bad. (Actually Class A is divided into two subclasses, A1 and A2.) Sentences for class E felonies typically have a maximum sentence of around three years, with most actual sentences being one year and/or probation or house arrest. BTW, New York statutes still list “abortion in the second degree” as a class E felony. I find that amusing for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-but-not-really/425523/6 "2007-11-07T14:22:19Z")
In Canada, [counselling or aiding suicide](http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowDoc/cs/C-46/bo-ga:l_VIII::bo-ga:l_IX//en?page=6&isPrinting=false#codese:241) is a criminal offence: > [@](#): > > \*\*Counselling or aiding suicide > > 241.\*\* Every one who > > (a) counsels a person to commit suicide, or > > (b) aids or abets a person to commit suicide, > > whether suicide ensues or not, is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years. Note that since attempting to commit suicide is not a criminal offence, conspiracy charges would not be an option. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-but-not-really/425523/7 "2007-11-07T15:55:25Z")
I’ve often wondered about this, mostly in relation to a Nero Wolfe novel. In the last Wolfe novel, “A Family Affair,” it’s discovered that one of Wolfe’s regular operatives is responsible for the murder of someone in Wolfe’s own house. Archie and the other two regular ops present the murderer with the evidence against him and imply that his best bet is to simply off himself (so as not to make public that Wolfe trusted and provided work for a murderer for years). He does so. Now, it may be that Archie Goodwin later served three-five years for this, but we never find out, Rex Stout having died soon after publication. ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-but-not-really/425523/8 "2007-11-07T17:15:45Z")
Your question makes no sense as it is written. You ask a question about a suicidal person and then as examples of what you mean you talk about a non-suicidal person. How does this make sense? ---
**Author:** ![WoodenTaco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@WoodenTaco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WoodenTaco)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-but-not-really/425523/9 "2007-11-07T17:42:00Z")
[QUOTE=denquixote] Your question makes no sense as it is written. You ask a question about a suicidal person and then as examples of what you mean you talk about a non-suicidal person. How does this make sense? [/QUOTE] It makes perfect sense. The OP is asking about each scenario independently. ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-but-not-really/425523/10 "2007-11-07T21:17:18Z")
[QUOTE=WoodenTaco] It makes perfect sense. The OP is asking about each scenario independently. [/QUOTE] Gotcha, sorry.