# Murder by Deportation **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 31, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527 "2019-08-31T17:49:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527/41 "2019-09-03T20:58:54Z")
I’m going to pretend to be a Trump supporter here and explain their rationale. First of all, the woman in the OP is an outlier. What they are enraged about are the people who come here as medical tourists and then get on Medicaid to take advantage of free American health care, the best health care in the world! They are foreigners who take advantage of the fact that they can come as tourists to set down roots and stay illegally while tax-paying Americans pay for their multi-million dollar treatments while they and their sick children (who will probably die anyway) suck up all the government money while decent hardworking Americans can’t afford their own medications. (Please note-I am just giving the right-wing explanation. It is NOT my feeling. I do understand that people unexpectedly get sick in foreign countries. I also understand that some of the individuals affected do pay their own insurance. I also recall a childhood friend who had CF, and a conversation I overheard with her high-school teacher where she said that there were experimental treatments in Europe that her doctor wanted her to try but she was too sick to fly. She was an incredibly bright student who was attending college at Stanford when she died. Unfortunately, she did not live to take advantage of the current treatments that might have helped her. I would never recommend that she be denied treatment because of where she was born. Treating sick children is a world-wide moral good.) ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527/42 "2019-09-03T21:01:57Z")
Just to clarify, this is their concern: > [@](#): > > The families have “medical deferred action,” which enables them to receive **government-funded health care** and work legally while their children receive medical treatment… Again, not arguing their side, just pointing out what their argument is. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527/43 "2019-09-03T21:23:42Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It’s a valid question. If the system itself is being perverted or taken advantage of by people who use it to further goals that are antithetical to the spirit of the system then at what point are you no longer obligated to work within the system? > > For every period of fascist or other authoritarian rule there was such a point. Not only that, but during those times there were people who relied on elections. This may have been a bad idea. We know Trump plans to cheat - he’s said as much publicly. We know the FEC is basically completely non-functional. We know there are external forces pushing to ensure his reelection. We know “cheat, then ignore tee consequences because you’re in power and what are they gonna do” is a far-right tactic from Brazil to Britain that keeps on working. Please, go vote. But if you want to rely entirely on that to save you, if you think I’m a monster for even considering that a plan B might be necessary to combat fascism… Fuck right off. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527/44 "2019-09-03T22:57:57Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > Just to clarify, this is their concern: > > Again, not arguing their side, just pointing out what their argument is. You are conflating two distinct entities. Their _argument_ is more or less what you said. Their _concern_ is “OMG BROWN PEOPULS!!!” ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527/45 "2019-09-04T02:36:50Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > You are conflating two distinct entities. Their _argument_ is more or less what you said. Their _concern_ is “OMG BROWN PEOPULS!!!” I’m tempted to say you’re full of shit but I can’t honestly imagine too much of a stink over people coming in from Canada or Western Europe for treatment. I reluctantly agree that you’re most likely right. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527/46 "2019-09-04T05:12:53Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > **Faced With Criticism, Trump Administration Reverses Abrupt End to Humanitarian Relief** > [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/02/us/trump-immigration-deferred-action.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/02/us/trump-immigration-deferred-action.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share) Based on what I’ve seen, it does not seem to be an absolute reversal: the program _is_ being discontinued, but applications for renewals filed on or before 7 August will be reviewed (not approved, which seems to have been prit’ near automatic in the past), along with new applications filed on or before that date until the backlog is cleaned up. For applications dated after 7 August, the situation is much more dismal. Deferments will no longer be issued by CIS; instead, the applicant must go through the deportation process and appear before an immigration court. Only after the court issues a deportation order can the applicant apply for a deferment — from ICE, whose mission statement seems to be something along the lines of “kick 'em out and keep 'em out.” So those like Maria Bueso aren’t out of the woods yet, even though the “get out of town before sunset” letters are, to use a Nixonian term, “inoperative” — CIS could still deny the application, though in her case the publicity makes it unlikely. And other, less newsworthy applicants may have a much harder row to hoe. While the _volte-face_ (complete with well-deserved egg) is a step in the right direction, I’ll keep the champagne corked. (Disclaimer: the above is what I’ve gleaned by going over the available material in a series of skips and short hops. And I’m by no means an expert in the field of immigration law. So it’s subject to correction by someone who is.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527/47 "2019-09-04T06:44:44Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Like, seriously. > > At what point is enough enough? > > At what point do we, collectively, decide that we’re not going to take this, that we’re not going to wait for someone else to figure it out, for another (broken, fraudulent, obviously corrupt) election to fix things? > > At what point do we fuckin’ storm the barricades? > > How much human suffering is enough before we decide that enough is enough? Or are we all just going to spend the next few years staring gormlessly at atrocity after atrocity that seemingly nobody cares to do anything about? “We?” Aren’t you in Germany? You coming home to participate in the uprising, or are you planning to practice revolution by proxy? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527/48 "2019-09-04T07:54:45Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > “We?” Aren’t you in Germany? You coming home to participate in the uprising, or are you planning to practice revolution by proxy? No, you’re right. I’m the guy who, during the holocaust, would not have been a victim but left Germany anyways like a shitty little coward. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527/49 "2019-09-04T13:53:20Z")
> [@Budget Player Cadet](#): > > No, you’re right. I’m the guy who, during the holocaust, would not have been a victim but left Germany anyways like a shitty little coward. Good to see you admitting what you are. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527/50 "2019-09-04T14:39:44Z")
The people fighting in the streets aren’t the only ones who are fighting. The Resistance always needs people abroad to agitate other government to change their policies regarding the tyranny. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2019, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527/51 "2019-09-05T14:37:46Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > The people fighting in the streets aren’t the only ones who are fighting. The Resistance always needs people abroad to agitate other government to change their policies regarding the tyranny. Yeah, the ones fighting in the streets ARE the only ones fighting. People doing other things can be said to be supporting the cause, but they are not fighting. Buying a War Bond was not the same thing as wading ashore at Normandy under fire, for example. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527/52 "2019-09-05T16:05:51Z")
The goddamn fascist Repugicans and Drumpf have a NEW angle now…. They’re toying with denying citizenship to children born overseas to U.S. citizen parents. Guess what. That will really fuck all those military dependents, won’t it. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527/53 "2019-09-06T17:30:13Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > The goddamn fascist Repugicans and Drumpf have a NEW angle now…. > They’re toying with denying citizenship to children born overseas to U.S. citizen parents. > > Guess what. That will really fuck all those military dependents, won’t it. Incorrect. It only applies to children adopted overseas by American citizens, not born to them. Or to service members who themselves are not US citizens who have a child outside of the US. What you’re complaining about isn’t true. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2019, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527/54 "2019-09-06T18:23:52Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Incorrect. It only applies to children adopted overseas by American citizens, not born to them. Or to service members who themselves are not US citizens who have a child outside of the US. What you’re complaining about isn’t true. Then complain about this, which is just as horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2019, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527/55 "2019-09-06T18:48:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Then complain about this, which is just as horrible. I don’t disagree. I don’t know what danger the new rule is protecting the US from, or problem it is supposed to solve, except keeping out more “foreigners”. I just wanted to correct the record, the administration does enough terrible stuff, we don’t need to gripe about things they aren’t doing. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527/56 "2019-09-06T19:00:17Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I don’t disagree. I don’t know what danger the new rule is protecting the US from, or problem it is supposed to solve, except keeping out more “foreigners”. > > I just wanted to correct the record, the administration does enough terrible stuff, we don’t need to gripe about things they aren’t doing. Or give them ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527/57 "2019-09-06T21:03:09Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Incorrect. It only applies to children adopted overseas by American citizens, not born to them. Or to service members who themselves are not US citizens who have a child outside of the US. What you’re complaining about isn’t true. Uh, non-US citizens do not get to pass on US citizenship to their children born outside the US. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527/58 "2019-09-06T21:40:46Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Uh, non-US citizens do not get to pass on US citizenship to their children born outside the US. Yes, as I said. The rule stating that children of US service members do not inherit citizenship applies to “service members who themselves are not US citizens who have a child outside of the US”. You’re repeating my statement as if you’re refuting it. Here’s a picture if it helps: [![](https://media.snopes.com/2019/08/uscis-graphic.jpg) ](https://media.snopes.com/2019/08/uscis-graphic.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527/59 "2019-09-07T06:32:31Z")
In other countries, adopted children are considered legally equal to those born of their parent’s own bodies; this includes instant and retroactive citizenship. Is that one of the things being removed? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527/60 "2019-09-07T13:32:18Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Uh, non-US citizens do not get to pass on US citizenship to their children born outside the US. I can see an argument that the child of a non-citizen service member who gives birth while posted overseas should be granted citizenship: the parent is a legal resident of the US, in the normal way of things, their children would be citizens. If, in the service of our country, they are denied the opportunity to have their child in the US, it seems reasonable to extend citizenship to that child. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-by-deportation/839527.md?page=4)