# Murder convictions in the Shafia "dis"-honour trial. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 29, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105 "2012-01-29T19:58:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105/21 "2012-01-30T14:09:08Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > For those who have not been following the trial/story, this [piece from the Globe and Mail](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/how-arrogance-and-mistakes-led-to-shafias-murder-conviction/article2319036/page1/) beautifully summarizes many of the outrageous and bizarre statements and actions by the defendants. Outrageous really is the operative word. Jeez, with all that evidence it wouldn’t have been a long deliberation. I’d need 15 min tops; 2 to vote and 13 to sit around and shoot the shit. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105/22 "2012-01-30T14:25:43Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Jeez, with all that evidence it wouldn’t have been a long deliberation. I’d need 15 min tops; 2 to vote and 13 to sit around and shoot the shit. Its not quite an open and shut case, so they probably deliberated lengthily for that reason. Although I suspect an appeal would be dismissed, at least the lawyer stuck with it has an arguable case, which is quite rare in Criminal Appeals. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105/23 "2012-01-30T14:45:10Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Jeez, with all that evidence it wouldn’t have been a long deliberation. I’d need 15 min tops; 2 to vote and 13 to sit around and shoot the shit. With the son and the father, guilt seems pretty clear to me. However, I didn’t see the newspapers reporting evidence that the mother took part in the murders, so the jury may have spent most of its time debating whether she was guilty. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105/24 "2012-01-30T14:53:12Z")
On the news. last evening, they were taking opinions of Muslims on the street, as it were, and they were universally in favour of the verdict. The reporter could not find anyone willing to speak against it, in fact. Apparently, the trial and verdict were being covered by a lot of international press. I wonder how this verdict is playing in other areas of the world? ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105/25 "2012-01-30T15:03:18Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > With the son and the father, guilt seems pretty clear to me. However, I didn’t see the newspapers reporting evidence that the mother took part in the murders, so the jury may have spent most of its time debating whether she was guilty. Judging from [wire taps excepts](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-10-most-shocking-quotes-from-the-shafia-trial/article2318872/) it’s clear that Yahya knew of the murders (she clearly approved of Zainab’s death). Also judging from her behaviour before/after the murders I just don’t reasonably see how she could be NOT involved. She was physically there along with Shafia, she knowingly approves of (at least one) of the deaths, she hasn’t even tried to once separate herself from the actions of the others. She showed herself to be as active in this crime as the other two. Maybe she sat on her arse and did nothing? Maybe she watched? I don’t know, but the evidence and actions point to them as a group. She’s just as guilty as the rest of them. Though, if I have some facts wrong I’d be willing to change my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105/26 "2012-01-30T18:04:20Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > Now she may very well be guilty of something (complicity after the fact, or perjury maybe), but as for first-degree murder I think a reasonable doubt could have been raised. Under Canadian law, complicity makes her guilty of the offence of murder as well: > [@](#): > > 1. (1) Every one is a party to an offence who > > (a) actually commits it; > > (b) does or omits to do anything for the purpose of aiding any person to commit it; or > > (c) abets any person in committing it. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105/27 "2012-01-30T18:05:37Z")
[CNN.com](http://CNN.com)’s coverage of the case: [http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/30/world/americas/canada-honor-murder/index.html?hpt=hp\_t3](http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/30/world/americas/canada-honor-murder/index.html?hpt=hp_t3) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105/28 "2012-01-30T18:30:51Z")
From the Globe and Mail link: The ignition was in the “off” position…prosecution said that was because one of the murderers had had to reach inside and put the car into first gear so it would move forward How could it move forward if the ignition was off? ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105/29 "2012-01-30T18:42:45Z")
Christie Blatchford has an interesting take on the matter in her National Post column today. [Link](http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/01/29/jury-reaches-verdict-in-shafia-trial/). As might be expected from Blatchford, she’s dug a little deeper into the matter and found more facts than the news stories currently running. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105/30 "2012-01-30T18:44:45Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > From the Globe and Mail link: > > The ignition was in the “off” position…prosecution said that was because one of the murderers had had to reach inside and put the car into first gear so it would move forward > > How could it move forward if the ignition was off? I believe it was pushed by the other car. Thus the broken taillight on the Nissan, and the broken headlight on the Lexus. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105/31 "2012-01-30T18:50:34Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Christie Blatchford has an interesting take on the matter in her National Post column today. [Link](http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/01/29/jury-reaches-verdict-in-shafia-trial/). As might be expected from Blatchford, she’s dug a little deeper into the matter and found more facts than the news stories currently running. I weep. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105/32 "2012-01-30T19:12:45Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > How could it move forward if the ignition was off? Get a manual car (so, not an automatic transmission). Put the car in first gear. Turn the car off. It’ll roll just fine if the emergency break is off. I know this because, as a green driver, I made this mistake many, many times in my dad’s fancy BMW :smack:. Luckily, never so badly that he found out :D. Oh, or that I murdered anybody. That too. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105/33 "2012-01-30T19:22:02Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Get a manual car (so, not an automatic transmission). Put the car in first gear. Turn the car off. It’ll roll just fine if the emergency break is off. Seems like you’d be pushing it dead engine, but if you’re doing it with another car, it probably doesn’t matter. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105/34 "2012-01-30T19:25:09Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Seems like you’d be pushing it dead engine, but if you’re doing it with another car, it probably doesn’t matter. 🙂 Either way, engine on or off- stalled or not, without a brake on of some sort, that bad boy is going to roll just the same. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105/35 "2012-01-30T19:26:16Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > “You might do it,” Lacelle calmly replied, “if you thought they were whores.” Shafia had used that term in a conversation captured by wiretaps.\* > > Boom! Objection! Argumentative! Further, Your Honor, is there a question here? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105/36 "2012-01-30T20:00:02Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Christie Blatchford has an interesting take on the matter in her National Post column today. I usually think of Christie Blatchford as a loathsome troll, but her reporting on this case has been top tier. I had no idea she was capable of being sensitive and circumspect, but holy crap - she pulled it off time and again over the last couple of years. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105/37 "2012-01-30T20:11:33Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Objection! Argumentative! Further, Your Honor, is there a question here? “You might do it, if you thought they were whores?” ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105/38 "2012-01-30T20:47:33Z")
I remember hearing about one of the rescue divers said that it was strange when nobody got out of the car. The water was shallow enough that anyone in reasonable health should have been able to get out. That mystifies me, since I do believe that the ‘survivors’ in the family are guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105/39 "2012-01-30T21:02:47Z")
I understand that the 19 and 17 year-olds had boyfriends that the family were upset about, but what did 13 year-old Geeti do that she deserved to die? Was that just a pre-emptive honor killing as she had reached puberty? Were they going to take out the youngest daughter when she reached puberty or wait for her to find a guy first? ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105/40 "2012-01-30T21:14:24Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > I understand that the 19 and 17 year-olds had boyfriends that the family were upset about, but what did 13 year-old Geeti do that she deserved to die? Was that just a pre-emptive honor killing as she had reached puberty? Were they going to take out the youngest daughter when she reached puberty or wait for her to find a guy first? “What sense does it make to kill two girls (and their mother) while leaving the last 13 year old alive? Geeti’ll clearly know the score and help convict the rest of us; best to wipe out the entire Rona clan. It’s the only way.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-convictions-in-the-shafia-dis-honour-trial/611105.md?page=3)