# Murder on film **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 24, 1999, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-on-film/5595 "1999-12-24T03:13:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eada6e/32.png) [@aha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aha)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 1999, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-on-film/5595/1 "1999-12-24T03:13:00Z")
Let me say right up front that I think the following subject, if legitmate, in any form, is patently offensive and outrageous… so please don’t flame me for being naturally curious… however having said that, I would like to know if anyone has ever read or seen any information about those so called “snuff films” a pornographic film in which the victim is ultimately really murdered. Are they real or urban legend? I have seen this rather turbid subject crop up from time to time in Hollywood movies (8mm…Nicholas Cage) ( A George C Scott movie that I can’t recall the name of at present…Rage maybe?) and others. I apologize for the lack of references here…but I know Hollywood writers have served this subject up to us a number of times before. Has anyone ever been arrested or convicted of this particularly horrible crime or anything like it? Or,if it is a real crime, is it so far underground that its possible the smut peddlers might get away with it on occasion? According to the last movie I saw, there are plenty of “fake snuff films” out there using actors that are protected by the first amendment, which is pretty depressing in itself( feel free here to correct me if that’s the wrong amendment). Is there any evidence that someone could really get away with something so heinous as that? Anyone ever read or heard of arrests or convictions for this crime or anything remotely like it? Thanks to Hollywood, I’m just morbidly curious I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 1999, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-on-film/5595/2 "1999-12-24T04:24:00Z")
Some [opinions](http://website.lineone.net/~lharding/page6.html) on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Boris\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@Boris\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boris_B)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 1999, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-on-film/5595/3 "1999-12-24T07:08:00Z")
Snopes knows more about this than me: [http://www.snopes.com/movies/other/snuff.htm](http://www.snopes.com/movies/other/snuff.htm) The upshot is that, although it’s next to impossible to prove that there have never been any snuff movies, no movies have ever been proven to be a snuff. The rumors abound, and probably increase rentals of some pretty crummy movies, but the authorities never seem to have gotten a hold of any. * * * - Boris B, Hellacious Ornithologist ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 1999, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-on-film/5595/4 "1999-12-24T15:07:00Z")
The movie mentioned in the OP may have been “Hardcore.” I haven’t seen it in many moons, but I think the plot goes something like this… Regular-guy suburban dad/office drone (George C.Scott?) has a rift with his teenage daughter, as most dads & teenage daughters have. Daughter hangs out with bad crowd, gets into drugs. Something happens next, and daughter either runs away or turns up missing. Somehow dad learns that daughter is appearing in porno films to finance drug habit. Dad takes her school picture and goes to sleazy places throughout city (LA?) and asks sleazy characters if they’ve seen her. He gets only blank stares. The rest, I can’t remember. As for real death on film, the “Faces of Death” series purports to be real, and it shows what appears to be scenes such as executions of Sri Lankan political prisoners and the like, but I can’t gaurantee its authenticity. * * * “Hey Torquemada, whaddya say? I’ve been away at the auto-da-fé. Auto-da-fé? What’s an auto-da-fé? It’s what you oughtta not do, but you do anyway!” ---
**Author:** ![aha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eada6e/32.png) [@aha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aha)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 1999, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-on-film/5595/5 "1999-12-24T15:16:00Z")
yupyup you are correct rastahomie. The movie was hardcore and the leading charactor was the late George C Scott. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 1999, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-on-film/5595/6 "1999-12-25T06:03:00Z")
The “Faces of Death” series or any movie/video made by a serial killer or rapist really wouldn’t count towards the definition anyway. Much of the “FOD” footage is recreated/faked, and the rest is usually news footage or amateur on-the-spot footage of some kind. Movies made by serial killers are for their own . . . er, “edification.” “Snuff films” are alleged to involve the purposeful abduction, torture and execution of a person, with the intent to duplicate and sell to an interested audience. The police have never found one; in fact, nobody has. _Skeptical Inquirer_ did a good piece on snuff films a few months ago. Worth looking at for some good discussion of the topic. * * * “It’s my considered opinion you’re all a bunch of sissies!”–Paul’s Grandfather ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 1999, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-on-film/5595/7 "1999-12-25T00:53:00Z")
Do those nightly news spots count? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 1999, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-on-film/5595/8 "1999-12-25T22:00:00Z")
Dunno, handy. The news around here is pretty tasteful about that stuff. You **never** see anything graphic before the 11PM news. Although America’s Funniest Home Videos was getting pretty far out there. (Some of those clips belonged in criminal court, not cued-up to a laugh track.) * * * “I had a feeling that in Hell there would be mushrooms.” -The Secret of Monkey Island ---
**Author:** ![Studi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Studi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Studi)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 1999, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-on-film/5595/9 "1999-12-26T06:20:00Z")
I saw a thirty-second vid the other day, a Russian snuff film (it was real). Two men killed two people. One they decapitated, the other was stabbed. It was very short and not too gory, actually. No torture, just quick deaths. ---
**Author:** ![aha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eada6e/32.png) [@aha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aha)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 1999, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-on-film/5595/10 "1999-12-26T17:00:00Z")
Holy crap sudi… where did you see that video? ---
**Author:** ![aha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eada6e/32.png) [@aha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aha)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 1999, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-on-film/5595/11 "1999-12-26T17:00:00Z")
err studi ---
**Author:** ![Studi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Studi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Studi)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 1999, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-on-film/5595/12 "1999-12-27T06:23:00Z")
I forgot, but I’ll look for it again. And I guess I could post the link here if I find it again (yes, it was on the internet, in \*.mpg form). And it’s not like it’s the only one I’ve seen, I’ve seen a whole bunch recently, from different places. ---
**Author:** ![BuddyG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@BuddyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuddyG)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 1999, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-on-film/5595/13 "1999-12-26T20:57:00Z")
The most well know “snuff” film is… The Zapruder Film, which captured JFK’s assassination in gory detail. Lord knows we’ve all seen that one numerous times. ---
**Author:** ![Cabbage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 1999, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-on-film/5595/14 "1999-12-26T23:13:00Z")
The Zapruder film and the local news don’t qualify as being snuff films. There are plenty of murders that have been captured on tape, and I would imagine that some serial killers have probably videotaped some of their murders–those aren’t considered snuff films either, as pldennison said. A snuff film, by definition, is one where the act is committed solely for the purpose of creating AND selling the video of a murder. ---
**Author:** ![fuzzy-wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b38774/32.png) [@fuzzy-wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzy-wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 1999, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-on-film/5595/15 "1999-12-26T23:27:00Z")
Well I wasn’t really gonna post this…but in my former life… sorry guys…just had to be the smartass… ---
**Author:** ![Raza](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raza/32/213_2.png) [@Raza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raza)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 1999, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-on-film/5595/16 "1999-12-27T21:39:00Z")
During my tenure as an undercover agent in a large beachside county, finding a snuff film was the holy grail of the pornography side of our enforcement duties. About once a month some hot lead would arise that indicated so-and-so had one and exhibited for special guests, but they never panned out. There were some pretty kinky yet wealthy people operating in our area, so it is likely that IF such a thing existed they would have been buyers. Since we had good contacts (or in some cases, direct contact) with these ne’er-do-wells, and never found anyone who actually had seen one, it seems obvious that snuff films are not as ubiquitous as the UL indicates. ## No one can assure us that none exists, but it seems certain that if anyone has a snuff film, they are keeping it to themselves. “The Morgue! She’ll be furious!” - Dr. Enrest Menville ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 1999, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-on-film/5595/17 "1999-12-27T21:49:00Z")
Well, if you watch “Mommie Dearest,” you can see Faye Dunaway’s career die . . . ---
**Author:** ![KeithM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@KeithM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KeithM)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 1999, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-on-film/5595/18 "1999-12-28T05:06:00Z")
Very good, Eve! As pointed out in the movie ‘8 mm,’ the reason actual snuff films are so hard to come by is, what would be the point in making them? Why risk the criminal implications when they can be pretty effectively faked? (And then your victim can be disguised and used in future films as well.) * * * “I am a news-paper man, damn it! Come to the point with me, sir, or take your business elsewhere!” - T. Herman Zweibel, Publisher, The Onion ---
**Author:** ![NanoByte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecc23a/32.png) [@NanoByte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NanoByte)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 1999, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-on-film/5595/19 "1999-12-28T06:35:00Z")
‘S’nuff o’ that.