# Murder-suicide prompted by medical expenses **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 10, 2019, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473 "2019-08-10T21:54:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473/1 "2019-08-10T21:54:20Z")
This happened near me, between here and Bellingham. [Elderly couple found dead from murder-suicide after they couldn’t afford wife’s healthcare](https://www.yahoo.com/news/elderly-couple-found-dead-murder-111900428.html) > [@](#): > > A man in Washington state has killed both himself and his wife after raising fears about struggling to pay medical expenses for her ongoing health conditions… > > Several notes were left in the home “citing severe ongoing medical problems with the wife and expressing concerns that the couple did not have sufficient resources to pay for medical care”, according to the sheriff’s statement. [NB: The video in the article is a different occurrence, in California.] There are things that should not be for-profit. Healthcare is one of them. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473/2 "2019-08-10T22:02:25Z")
This is heartbreaking. ☹ So many countries in the world have figured this out, but the resistance here is dug-in and immovable. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473/3 "2019-08-10T22:04:10Z")
Bloodthirsty hospital administrators. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473/4 "2019-08-10T22:35:15Z")
Just so sad. I’m worried for this country. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473/5 "2019-08-11T00:34:34Z")
Not surprised unfortunately. My only surprise is that it doesn’t happen more often. Today, I had to dip into my savings to buy my 60 day asthma inhaler. It costs me forty dollars a month to breathe. And I have insurance. My electricity bill is less than that. It’s obscene. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473/6 "2019-08-11T02:03:38Z")
It’s tragic, to be sure, and I believe that there is a lot more to the story. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473/7 "2019-08-11T02:22:28Z")
Insulin costs have went through the roof. It has doubled in the last 2 years. My insurance company insists I attend a monthly diabetic clinic so I get a bit cut off the price of my co-pay. The real savings are the free insulin pens they give out at this clinic. I grab as many as they’ll let me have. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473/8 "2019-08-11T02:59:34Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Insulin costs have went through the roof. It has doubled in the last 2 years. My insurance company insists I attend a monthly diabetic clinic so I get a bit cut off the price of my co-pay. The real savings are the free insulin pens they give out at this clinic. I grab as many as they’ll let me have. This price-gouging is one of the most sickening things I’ve heard about in recent years. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473/9 "2019-08-11T03:04:08Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > This price-gouging is one of the most sickening things I’ve heard about in recent years. Insulin making companies are very good at making slight tweaks in the manufacturing process and the molecule which serve no significant patient benefit, but enable them to claim a new patent and keep exclusivity. Nobody in the US makes the old style cheaper insulins anymore. Just the molecularly engineered, cell-based stuff which is super high tech. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473/10 "2019-08-11T03:20:36Z")
The health insurance system is obviously terrible, but I’m a little dismayed at the degree to which I’ve seen this portrayed in the media as a healthcare issue rather than an inexcusable violent crime. This woman died because she was a victim of domestic violence. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473/11 "2019-08-11T04:54:44Z")
About half of my fixed SS income goes for insulin and other medical expenses. And that’s with Medicare and supplemental insurance. If I were single, and didn’t have my husband’s income, I’d be dead already, through insufficient insulin or suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473/12 "2019-08-11T05:51:49Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > This woman died because she was a victim of domestic violence. Or it was suicide by husband. It _is_ a healthcare issue because our profit-driven system is not concerned with people’s health. It’s only concerned with how much money it can make for the CEOs and shareholders. The result is that it drives people into desperation, and sometimes suicide, instead of helping them. [Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies.](https://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148) ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473/13 "2019-08-11T06:10:48Z")
Yeah, my default is that murder victims didn’t want to die, and abusers are always full of excuses for why it’s not their fault. Dozens of ill and disabled people are murdered by their caregivers every year, and unfortunately this [isn’t the first time](https://psmag.com/news/disabled-americans-stop-murdering-us) the reporting was implicitly sympathetic to the killer with no good reason: > [@](#): > > When Bonnie Liltz killed her daughter, the Chicago Tribune quoted a family friend saying, “Bonnie deserves an award for the years of sacrifice she gave for her daughter.” When Harry Burroughs killed his daughter and then himself, the Daily Heraldin suburban Chicago ran a piece in which Burroughs’ former partners on the planning commission extolled hm as a “wonderful guy,” and said they would miss him. His daughter’s life received no coverage. The local NBC affiliate in Dawsonville, Georgia, wondered whether the murder of a disabled teenager by his mother was a “possible mercy killing,” using a phrase particularly reviled by the disability community. The affiliate later changed their headline after widespread protest. The New York Timesand many other outlets used William Hager’s murder of his wife, Carolyn, to report on the high cost of prescription drugs for seniors, implicitly giving credence to Hager’s claim that he killed Carolyn over medical costs. Missing was the fact that Carolyn did not ask to die. Emily Kaminski’s murder by her grandmother was called “an act of love” by a friend and sometime caretaker, as reported by local news without further context. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473/14 "2019-08-11T11:46:52Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Yeah, my default is that murder victims didn’t want to die, and abusers are always full of excuses for why it’s not their fault. Victims of murder, pretty much by definition, don’t want to die. Which is why an assisted suicide is not reasonably described as murder, and why those doing the assisting sound to you like they’re full of excuses. Everything sounds like a lie when you’re not approaching a situation truthfully. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473/15 "2019-08-11T12:29:52Z")
There’s zero to indicate that this was an assisted suicide. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473/16 "2019-08-11T12:40:48Z")
As a diabetic approaching 65, and one beset by medical bills myself, I can muster quite a bit more sympathy for the couple. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473/17 "2019-08-11T13:17:22Z")
Yeah, there were some very fine people on both sides. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473/18 "2019-08-11T13:19:19Z")
My grandmother killed herself over medical bills in 1968. Her disease was depression. She was bankrupting the family trying (and failing with 1968 technology) to get better. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473/19 "2019-08-11T13:44:35Z")
This kind of sympathy affects Canada as well. Years ago, Robert Latimer killed his very disabled daughter Tracy, and the media’s reaction was … ambivalent. Some supported him, some didn’t. Canada recently passed an assisted suicide law. Among other things, the law is supposed to ensure that the person who wants to die actually wants to die. > [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > There’s zero to indicate that this was an assisted suicide. If the US had an assisted suicide law, there would be proof one way or the other. Simply put, he could have gone through the formal channels, which would of course involve people talking to his wife separately to find out if she actually wanted this. If there were formal channels and he didn’t take them, that would be evidence against assisted suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473/20 "2019-08-11T14:10:18Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > About half of my fixed SS income goes for insulin and other medical expenses. And that’s with Medicare and supplemental insurance. If I were single, and didn’t have my husband’s income, I’d be dead already, through insufficient insulin or suicide. If you didn’t have any financial assets for the insurance you prefer wouldn’t you qualify for (and be subject to) government healthcare? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/murder-suicide-prompted-by-medical-expenses/838473.md?page=2)