Murderer is "a hero" for confessing? (RO)

[The_King_of_Soup]

According to the story, in 2008 Inman is 29 and his friend/accomplice is 28. Also according to the story, in 1994 Inman was 16 and his friend was 13 or younger? Maybe it’s just time for me to go to bed, but, what the hey? I guess Inman must have been 15 plus a lot at the time of the crime, and the friend 14 minus a fraction.

If you insist on the classical definition, “hero” wouldn’t be a word much used at all anymore, divine parentage being so hard to come by. “One who shows great courage,” though, is a definition that survives in modern dictionaries, and it’s hard to think of a more heroically courageous act than confessing to a capital crime in Texas in order to fulfill a personally-felt ethical obligation to justice, when the alternative is to continue to exist, fairly comfortably, in the knowledge that Texas justice is so sooty already that an additional smudge won’t be noticed, and in fact that its record is so black when it comes to capital crimes that it’s not really a smudge at all.

The fact that this act led Inman’s friends today to call him a hero does not detract from the ground occupied by those who call him a murderer: these truths exist independently of each other and do not clash. Whitmanlike, we are all large and we all contain multitudes. Statesman, liar, philanthropist, rogue; Thief, soldier, poet, glutton; Genius, racist, samaritan, philanderer; Doting father, embezzler, safe driver, alcoholic. Me on my best day, me on a good day, me when I’m mad, me at my worst.

The man is being condemned for what he has done. Let him also be praised for what he also has done, so that our children can learn to appreciate the difference.

[Bricker]

@Dr.Drake

Personally, I require someone to do something beyond the bounds of what most human beings are capable of to be a hero.

@Dr. Drake

I can’t think of a specific individual. How about those guys on Flight 93? Or some of the early civil rights leaders in the American South. I’m not trying to advocate an impossible standard, just a more extreme one – say the 1% at the end of the bell curve rather than the upper 25% I seem to see in the media. Assuming such things had been or even could be quantified.

What did the guys on Flight 93 do that was “beyond the bounds of what most human beings are capable of ?”

[maggenpye]

Confession and atonement are parts of the Christian faith. What he has done in admitting his guilt makes him a good Christian rather than a hero. God alone has the authority to forgive him (as far as this outsider can tell). His congregation has been polite and nice, but cannot grant him a single iota of peace while he feels his God is judging him. Having confessed and paid whatever penalty the state allows and the church dictates, I’m sure he’ll feel all better.

His victim may not.

[friedo]

@maggenpye

What he has done in admitting his guilt makes him a good Christian rather than a hero.

No it doesn’t. A good Christian is one who doesn’t fucking murder people.

[Menocchio]

@friedo

No it doesn’t. A good Christian is one who doesn’t fucking murder people.

Actually the central point of the religion is that a person could have done virtually anything*, and still be a good Christian as long as they confess and own up to it. If he’s truly repentant, it doesn’t matter what kind of person he was, but what kind of person he is now.

*The only thing you can’t get out of is “blasphemy against the holy spirit”, but to do that you have to witness a miracle, know it, and then call it evil. Not something most of us have a chance to do.

[friedo]

@Menocchio

Actually the central point of the religion is that a person could have done virtually anything*, and still be a good Christian as long as they confess and own up to it. If he’s truly repentant, it doesn’t matter what kind of person he was, but what kind of person he is now.

That’s a central point of some particularly detestable brands of petulant evangelicalism. It has little to do with real Christianity, and nothing at all to do with anything that Jesus Christ said.

[thirdwarning]

And maybe he wasn’t one then. That doesn’t mean he can’t be one now.

eta: This was in response to Friedo’s post a couple above.

[Dr.Drake]

@Bricker

What did the guys on Flight 93 do that was “beyond the bounds of what most human beings are capable of ?”

I think you’re taking “capable” too narrowly. I don’t think most people would have been capable of taking action knowing it would lead to their own deaths and the deaths of innocent people in the face of a greater good. Physically capable, sure, but I was thinking of the totality of physical + emotional + intellectual. I’m happy with The King of Soup’s definition, though I’d prefer “exceptional” to “great.”

[Menocchio]

@friedo

That’s a central point of some particularly detestable brands of petulant evangelicalism. It has little to do with real Christianity, and nothing at all to do with anything that Jesus Christ said.

No, I’m pretty sure all major brands of Christianity have that bit. Repentance and forgiveness is the core of the religion. I know it is for Roman Catholicism, and for the liberal Protestantism with which I was raised. Maybe hardcore Calvinists don’t, but Calvinism always made my head hurt.

Perhaps you’re thinking of the Jack Chick types who say that the repentant (where “repentant” means just saying the magic words) murderer is saved where the heroically moral atheist is damned. *That *is a perversion of the wider faith. But not the belief that the murderer can repent and be saved alone.

[Cheesesteak]

@friedo

That’s a central point of some particularly detestable brands of petulant evangelicalism. It has little to do with real Christianity, and nothing at all to do with anything that Jesus Christ said.

You should probably send an email to the Pope advising him that the whole Sacrament of Penance thing is a sham.

[Boyo_Jim]

What is it with this mixing of christianity and heroism? Does it take one to make the other, in either direction? No.

So WTF if this guy is, or was, or will be a good christian? Or has been a bad one?

Taking 14 years to decide to confess to a crime is not a heroic act. None of us knows why he did it, really. Maybe he wanted to impress a chick, maybe he learned he has inoperable cancer. Maybe somebody talked him into it. If he confessed 10 years ago, would he be more of a hero? Or what if he had just stayed at the crime scene at the time and confessed on the spot? Would he be a hero then?

I would argue that the longer you wait until you do what you should do to make things right, the less of a hero you can be. And since you can’t make right a murder, you can’t be a hero in any scenario I can imagine stemming from the original act. Ok, well, one way only. Maybe if you confess to save an innocent person from being imprisoned or executed for your crime, then your confession might be considered heroic. That is all.

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

@friedo

No it doesn’t. A good Christian is one who doesn’t fucking murder people.

Last time I heard you worshipped Thor or something like that. Anyway the most prominent Christian, St.Paul once participated in the stoning death of the first known Chrstian martyr. Christianity forgave him as well.

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

@Boyo Jim

What is it with this mixing of christianity and heroism? Does it take one to make the other, in either direction? No.

.

Save it for the Islamists. Where were you when Osama killed 3000 people and he was hailed a hero all over the world?

You know, we don;t have to fuckin agree as to whose a hero or not you know. There’s many more and more important issues that divide people.

[friedo]

@The Flying Dutchman

Last time I heard you worshipped Thor or something like that.

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

@friedo

Sorry.

[Contrapuntal]

@friedo

That’s a central point of some particularly detestable brands of petulant evangelicalism. It has little to do with real Christianity, and nothing at all to do with anything that Jesus Christ said.

How can anyone know with any degree of certainty what Jesus Christ said? Are there any contemporary accounts of his sayings?

[maggenpye]

@friedo

No it doesn’t. A good Christian is one who doesn’t fucking murder people.

A good Christian confesses his sins and makes atonement. That was the point I was trying to make. As others have noted, according to the bible you may be forgiven murder, but not for saying “Christ Allfucking Mighty” which is saying the Lord’s name in vain.

I have no other point to make here than the guy wasn’t a hero - he’s a murderer. A good Christian murderer.
The people of his congregation who call him a hero are just fucked in the head.

[TellMeI_mNotCrazy]

My personal loose definition of hero is “someone who does something for the benefit of another without regard for the likely injury to himself and without any desire to benefit himself”. Not very graceful, but that’s my opinion in a nutshell.

A guy happens across a terrible accident and pulls someone to safety, even though the car is spouting flames? That’s a hero.

If that same guy happened to be the idiot who removed all the stop signs and caused the car wreck in the first place, I can hardly consider him to be a hero. It’s all well and good that he risked his own safety to help someone else, but it doesn’t negate the fact that had he not pulled the stop signs, there wouldn’t have been any need to help them in the first place.

So in this instance, the benefit could be seen as providing closure to the victim’s family, resolving a cold case and releasing police resources, etc. Great thing to do, and very brave and courageous. However, the fact that none of those things would have been necessary had he not actually killed someone in the first place makes it hard to consider him a hero just because he confessed.

[Boyo_Jim]

@The Flying Dutchman

Save it for the Islamists. Where were you when Osama killed 3000 people and he was hailed a hero all over the world?

WTF does that mean?

@The Flying Dutchman

You know, we don;t have to fuckin agree as to whose a hero or not you know. There’s many more and more important issues that divide people.

We don’t have to agree on ANY fuckin’ thing. But this question is what the OP is about, so what the fuck are you posting for?

[Mark_Ryle]

The person dubbing Calvin Wayne Inman a hero is 24-year-old Kelley Graham, probably commenting to a reporter before or after Sunday services at her probably Charismatic or Pentecostal church. Houston, or Pasadena (the article isn’t clear), jailed him without bail, of course, not being quite so enraptured with such heroic behavior. The reporter just selected the dittsiest comment possible. The police photographer seems to have captured more his true character.