# Museum exhibits for real? JFK's blood stains? Hitler's comb? Piece of the True Cross??? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 28, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792 "2014-10-28T20:25:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792/1 "2014-10-28T20:25:17Z")
OK, is this stuff for real? How do we know? I visited the Gettysburg Museum of History the other day and the place is just crammed full of amazing artifacts. But the whole point of them is that they are real; if they aren’t authentic, they become boring junk. How do we know the difference? They had Adolf Hitler artifacts including his comb and other grooming accessories, his teapot, his silverware set, an X-Ray of his head, his pillowcase and a bit of couch upholstery stained with his suicide blood. They had locks of George and Martha Washington’s hair, and Napoleon’s. They had Lincoln artifacts including hair, theater glasses, and wallet. They had Saddam Hussain’s dinnerware. They had a bunch of JFK stuff including his suit, his date book, his desk telephone, and some car upholstery stained with his blood from the assassination. And the socks of Joseph P. Kennedy for good measure. From Elvis, they had clothing and his first copy of the PDR (Physician’s Desk Reference). Apparently he had six copies. Actually, this one I have no reason to doubt… And a prescription for narcotics for Marilyn Monroe. I’d have expected it to use a different name, Norma Jean something, but maybe she changed her legal name and everything. To top it off, they had a little piece of the True Cross, meaning the cross on which Jesus was crucified. No blood on this one, but still. So, how do we manage to know that this stuff is legit? ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792/2 "2014-10-28T20:59:54Z")
I’m guessing they have very rigid standards for provenance, but if anyone has a more specific answer I’m also curious. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792/3 "2014-10-28T21:02:36Z")
More on [provenance](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provenance). ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792/4 "2014-10-28T21:07:39Z")
> [@babygoat666](#): > > I’m guessing they have very rigid standards for provenance, Really? Even for the piece of the true cross? I’m guessing that some of the stuff might be real and a lot of it is bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792/5 "2014-10-28T21:12:38Z")
Real cross? I thought we weren’t even sure that Jesus himself was real? ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792/6 "2014-10-28T21:14:18Z")
With stuff like pieces of the True Cross (and most early relics), they kind of fall into the category of authentic fakes-- they’re almost certainly fakes, but they might be fakes dating back to the middle ages which makes them interesting in itself. ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792/7 "2014-10-28T21:16:24Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Really? Even for the piece of the true cross? I’m guessing that some of the stuff might be real and a lot of it is bullshit. [Here is all I can find about that:](https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10152301356416827&id=131219241826) True Cross relic on display at The Gettysburg Museum Of History. Encased in this reliquary is a small piece of what the Vatican believes is the True Cross of Christ. This is a venerated relic with Vatican papers dating from the 1700’s. This relic was from a Cathedral in Belgium and was removed to keep it out of the hands of the Nazis during WWII. The Cathedral was destroyed in WWII and it fell into private hands. We rescued it from an antiquities dealer in Belgium about 10 years ago. An amazing relic with an interesting story. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792/8 "2014-10-28T21:29:02Z")
Regarding the ‘piece of the true Cross’, John Calvin wrote in the mid-1500’s: “There is no abbey so poor as not to have a specimen. In some places there are large fragments, as at the Holy Chapel in Paris, at Poitiers, and at Rome, where a good-sized crucifix is said to have been made of it. In brief, if all the pieces that could be found were collected together, they would make a big ship-load. Yet the Gospel testifies that a single man was able to carry it.” It would be fairly easy for modern science to examine a tiny fragment of such wood and give an accurate date, origin, etc. for it – but none of the museums are ever willing to allow this. Generally, all of these seem likely to be frauds. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792/9 "2014-10-28T21:29:26Z")
Rescued it? That’s an overly dramatic way of referring to what I assume was a normal purchase. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792/10 "2014-10-28T21:49:15Z")
Several men have handled the piece of the true cross on display in Gettysburg. Not one of them was stricken with a splinter. Make of that what you will. Hosanna. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792/11 "2014-10-28T21:57:35Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Really? Even for the piece of the true cross? I’m guessing that some of the stuff might be real and a lot of it is bullshit. Looks like it’s in a proper gold reliquary. I’m sure the reliquary can be traced and dated. I’d be willing to believe that they have sufficient proof that the reliquary is authentic. > [@GreasyJack](#): > > With stuff like pieces of the True Cross (and most early relics), they kind of fall into the category of authentic fakes-- they’re almost certainly fakes, but they might be fakes dating back to the middle ages which makes them interesting in itself. I took a couple of medieval studies classes in college and had heard of the veneration of relics of the True Cross and outcries against people peddling fake relics during the Middle Ages. (The Canterbury Tales includes the Pardoner’s confession of using fake relics.) But I was curious to know when it had started, and according to wikipedia, there were historians writing about the recent discovery of the True Cross in the middle fourth century, which is late antiquity rather than early medieval. What I was interested to learn was that [in medieval times, the legend expanded](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Cross). > [@](#): > > In the Latin-speaking traditions of Western Europe, the story of the pre-Christian origins of the True Cross was well established by the 13th century when, in 1260, it was recorded, by Jacopo de Voragine, Bishop of Genoa, in the Golden Legend. The legends that accreted around the cross included tales of the growth of the tree(s) that would produce the wood for it. One tale had a seed from the tree from the Garden of Eden being placed in Adam’s mouth when he was buried, and the tree sprouting from that. So, plenty of history to be found around the relic, no matter what the actual wood is. ---
**Author:** ![bryanmaguire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d07c76/32.png) [@bryanmaguire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bryanmaguire)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792/12 "2014-10-28T22:49:58Z")
The true cross was supposedly found by the mother of Constantine the Great. [[URL=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena\_%28empress%29”]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena\_%28empress%29](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_%28empress%29#Relic_discoveries) sounds legit. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792/13 "2014-10-28T23:07:11Z")
> [@bryanmaguire](#): > > The true cross was supposedly found by the mother of Constantine the Great. [[URL=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena\_%28empress%29”]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena\_%28empress%29](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_%28empress%29#Relic_discoveries) > > sounds legit. A couple hundred years after the crucifixion, she goes hiking and finds the cross? And nails, also? For the life of me, I can’t find my work gloves. I last wore them when I planted some oak leaf hydrangeas yesterday. Twenty four hours later, they’re lost. [QUOTE= Wikipedia] Then, Rufinus relates, the empress refused to be swayed by anything short of solid proof and performed a test. Possibly through Bishop Macarius of Jerusalem, she had a woman who was near death brought from the city. When the woman touched the first and second crosses, her condition did not change, but when she touched the third and final cross she suddenly recovered,[25] and Helena declared the cross with which the woman had been touched to be the True Cross. [/QUOTE] She’s near death and they drag her into the countryside to touch crosses as a test? They were different times, I guess. ETA: Yikes, what if the first cross she touched was the True Cross, but there was a minute lag prior to effect? ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792/14 "2014-10-28T23:13:17Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > OK, is this stuff for real? How do we know? I visited the Gettysburg Museum of History the other day and the place is just crammed full of amazing artifacts. But the whole point of them is that they are real; if they aren’t authentic, they become boring junk. How do we know the difference? > > They had Adolf Hitler artifacts including his comb and other grooming accessories, his teapot, his silverware set, an X-Ray of his head, his pillowcase and a bit of couch upholstery stained with his suicide blood. > > They had locks of George and Martha Washington’s hair, and Napoleon’s. > > They had Lincoln artifacts including hair, theater glasses, and wallet. > > They had Saddam Hussain’s dinnerware. > > They had a bunch of JFK stuff including his suit, his date book, his desk telephone, and some car upholstery stained with his blood from the assassination. And the socks of Joseph P. Kennedy for good measure. > > From Elvis, they had clothing and his first copy of the PDR (Physician’s Desk Reference). Apparently he had six copies. Actually, this one I have no reason to doubt… > > And a prescription for narcotics for Marilyn Monroe. I’d have expected it to use a different name, Norma Jean something, but maybe she changed her legal name and everything. > > To top it off, they had a little piece of the True Cross, meaning the cross on which Jesus was crucified. No blood on this one, but still. > > So, how do we manage to know that this stuff is legit? I heard they also had the original bill from the Last Supper, but its not on display anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792/15 "2014-10-28T23:15:51Z")
That’s nothing. I was at the Topkapi Palace museum years ago, in Istanbul, and they had a hair from the beard of the Prophet. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792/16 "2014-10-28T23:22:44Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > That’s nothing. I was at the Topkapi Palace museum years ago, in Istanbul, and they had a hair from the beard of the Prophet. They also have a cast of one of his foot prints. Those might be real. I could see someone saving that. I kind of doubt Abraham’s walking stick. ---
**Author:** ![bryanmaguire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d07c76/32.png) [@bryanmaguire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bryanmaguire)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792/17 "2014-10-28T23:29:28Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > A couple hundred years after the crucifixion, she goes hiking and finds the cross? And nails, also? For the life of me, I can’t find my work gloves. I last wore them when I planted some oak leaf hydrangeas yesterday. Twenty four hours later, they’re lost. > > She’s near death and they drag her into the countryside to touch crosses as a test? They were different times, I guess. > > ETA: Yikes, what if the first cross she touched was the True Cross, but there was a minute lag prior to effect? Where’s your faith? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792/18 "2014-10-28T23:36:37Z")
> [@bryanmaguire](#): > > Where’s your faith? > [@](#): > > Faith is belief that is not based on proof. I’m more of an evidence based sorta guy. Although I’ll fall, supplicant at the feet of whoever finds my damn work gloves. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792/19 "2014-10-28T23:40:26Z")
Nothing beats the church in Paris with a reliquary that contains Jesus’ [prepuce](http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutjesus/a/holyforeskin.htm). I saw it. You may call me St. Exapno. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792/20 "2014-10-29T00:04:00Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Nothing beats the church in Paris with a reliquary that contains Jesus’ [prepuce](http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutjesus/a/holyforeskin.htm). I saw it. You may call me St. Exapno. Since it’s supposed to be buried after the bris, that was quite a trick, finding it. I guess maybe it plays into that legend that the bodies of saints don’t decay, so all you’d have to do is figure out where it was buried… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/museum-exhibits-for-real-jfks-blood-stains-hitlers-comb-piece-of-the-true-cross/702792.md?page=2)