# Music and Satanism, any truth? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 2, 2003, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078 "2003-09-02T05:05:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Anniee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@Anniee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anniee)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078/21 "2003-09-02T20:31:34Z")
Okay, I will certainly bow to your superior knowledge on King Diamond. He always DID creep me out; of all the bands you later came to know were just gimmicky, he seemed among them like the genuine article. So perhaps he is the best answer to the OP? (Listening to a song of his recently still gave me the same creeps.) “Of course, one could say that LaVey’s entire existence was a marketing ploy but that’s another story entirely…” I certainly wouldn’t rule that out. Indeed that is another story though 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sacrilegium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f05b48/32.png) [@Sacrilegium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sacrilegium)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078/22 "2003-09-02T20:35:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anniee \* > **Okay, I will certainly bow to your superior knowledge on King Diamond. He always DID creep me out;** He always reminded me of The Hamburglar 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Live\_Better\_Electrically](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/46a35a/32.png) [@Live\_Better\_Electrically](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Live_Better_Electrically)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078/23 "2003-09-03T03:11:06Z")
There was **Venom** , too. Whether or not they were sincere, I don’t know. Do people ever wonder whether Mahalia Jackson was only into gospel as a marketing ploy? ---
**Author:** ![Lockfist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/838e76/32.png) [@Lockfist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lockfist)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078/24 "2003-09-03T05:42:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wristy McSlashalot \* > \*\*For bands that I know of that are actually dedicated to Satanism, you have Deicide and Norwegian black metal bands like Mayhem. But even those bands just seem to rely on the Satanic image as a cheap scare tactic to shock people. \*\* Well, I think the history of **Mayhem** and **Emperor** prove that at least some in the Norweigen Black Metal scene “practice what they preach” as several members or former members are in jail for a variety of reasons including murder and burning down churches and what-not. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078/25 "2003-09-03T14:54:29Z")
yeah, Mahalia Jackson was actually a long-time Hoodoo woman. Didn’t you see the E documentary? _trying to keep a straight face_ ---
**Author:** ![ricksummon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ricksummon/32/3333_2.png) [@ricksummon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricksummon)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078/26 "2003-09-03T18:01:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Marilyn Manson-Has three dice tatooed on his arm, the three reading 6 6 6, the number of the Beast (Satan). No, sounds more like he just wants to roll a natural 18 on all his character’s stats to me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078/27 "2003-09-03T20:19:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ricksummon \* > \*\*No, sounds more like he just wants to roll a natural 18 on all his character’s stats to me. 🙂 \*\* [hijack] Reminds me of the episode of That 70s Show where they had Alice Cooper playing D&D. Hee hee hee! ---
**Author:** ![Opengrave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/919ad9/32.png) [@Opengrave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Opengrave)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078/28 "2003-09-03T21:04:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lockfist \* > \*\*Well, I think the history of **Mayhem** and **Emperor** prove that at least some in the Norweigen Black Metal scene “practice what they preach” as several members or former members are in jail for a variety of reasons including murder and burning down churches and what-not. \*\* I read an article (below) quite some time ago that was about the Norway murders and church burnings and the basic conclusion was that it wasn’t about devout satanism but rather image and one-upmanship. It is long but worth a read. [Read the article here.](http://www.lut.fi/~mega/muzac/news/SpinArticle.html) ---
**Author:** ![audiobottle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@audiobottle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/audiobottle)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078/29 "2003-09-03T21:10:32Z")
Brief interjection… I had heard that AC/DC stood for “Anti-Christ, Devil Children.” Just goes to show you how imaginative people can get when they really don’t like something. ---
**Author:** ![Anniee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@Anniee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anniee)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078/30 "2003-09-03T22:24:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Live Better Electrically! \* > \*\*There was **Venom** , too. Whether or not they were sincere, I don’t know. Do people ever wonder whether Mahalia Jackson was only into gospel as a marketing ploy? \*\* Venom was pretty overt. I don’t know or care about Mahalia Jackson, but I was _positive_ that Stryper was nothing but a marketing ploy. At the time, anyway. I thought it was dumb; though some Christian metal turned out to be really good - Sacred Warrior was as good as Queensryche. Anyway, yeah both sides get questioned. ---
**Author:** ![fizzestothetop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@fizzestothetop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fizzestothetop)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078/31 "2003-09-03T23:05:47Z")
IIRC AC/DC got their name off of a vaccum cleaner. Electricity current or something like that. That’s not very satanic, now is it? It was also rumored that Richard Ramirez got his nickname The Night Stalker from their song Night Prowler which is basically a song about a peeping tom (I haven’t listened to it in quite a while so I may be wrong on that). ---
**Author:** ![Anniee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@Anniee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anniee)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078/32 "2003-09-04T03:25:18Z")
BTW, the Marilyn Manson thing…I don’t know if he’s heavy metal or not, but I have read some stuff about how he’s a perfectly normal man who had a perfectly normal job (in news) and decided to TEST society by being as outrageous as possible; his thesis was that a white man could get away with it where blacks (such as NWA, those arrested for indecency) could not. If that has any merit, he’s full of shit but he sure did prove that one can get away with anything once the public is desensitized to it. ---
**Author:** ![jk1245](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@jk1245](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jk1245)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078/33 "2003-09-04T03:58:26Z")
I had always heard from the fundies that AC/DC meant they were bisexual, they’d go both ways. :rolleyes: Anyway, most of the mainstream acts are most likely into it for publicity and shock value. Both Motley Crue and Manson quickly ditched their “satanic” stuff once they became famous and turned into glam rockers almost. King Diamond, Deicide and Mayhem are probably the most “authentic” of the satanic bands. As others have mentioned though, the whole “satanic cult” thing is largely overplayed and overhyped. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078/34 "2003-09-04T04:07:01Z")
Manson was indeed a journalist (a music journalist) before he became a full-time musician, although one imagines he probably dabbled before that. He formed his first band in 1989, so it’s not like he shot to fame; he’s been in the biz for 15 years. As for the “thesis?” I highly doubt it. People like Ozzy Osbourne, KISS, and Alice Cooper “got away” with behavior like Manson’s more than 30 years ago. And what they do is not much like the stuff NWA did anyway. The little I know about him by way of biographical stuff doesn’t indicate he was “perfectly normal” either, by any stretch. ---
**Author:** ![Lockfist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/838e76/32.png) [@Lockfist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lockfist)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078/35 "2003-09-04T05:15:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Opengrave \* > \*\*I read an article (below) quite some time ago that was about the Norway murders and church burnings and the basic conclusion was that it wasn’t about devout satanism but rather image and one-upmanship. It is long but worth a read. > [Read the article here.](http://www.lut.fi/~mega/muzac/news/SpinArticle.html) \*\* Perhaps you are right, **Opengrave**. I would still maintain that if someone is going to ask for a link between music and Satanism the escapades detailed in the article you mention would be as close a fit as any mentioned in this discussion. Thanks for the link, I think I located some plagarised passages in my own research. Hails. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078/36 "2003-09-04T07:05:26Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Anniee_ > **…but I was _positive_ that Stryper was nothing but a marketing ploy. At the time, anyway.** Well, as far as I know, the members of Stryper were (and still are) devout Christians. They dumped the bumblebee suits and overt Christian messages on their final album _Against the Law_, but that was more of a misguided attempt to go mainstream, probably more to do with their managers and record label than anything else. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Opengrave \* > \*\*I read an article (below) quite some time ago that was about the Norway murders and church burnings and the basic conclusion was that it wasn’t about devout satanism but rather image and one-upmanship. \*\* Yes, but all of those bands still used the whole pseudo-Satanic thing to build their image (which of course has _nothing_ to do with “real” Satanism, i.e. the LaVey/King Diamond type.) A lot of them switched to pagan and Nordic mythos, though. And Varg “Burzum” Virkernes says he’s a neo-Nazi now. Blech. (Nearly as distateful as the midi music he’s been recording in prison…sheesh.) BTW, _Lords of Chaos_ is an excellent book. Highly recommended. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078/37 "2003-09-04T07:14:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jk1245 \* > **I had always heard from the fundies that AC/DC meant they were bisexual, they’d go both ways. :rolleyes:** They were apparently rather shocked to discover the phrase AC/DC is used to mean bi. Not upset, just shocked and amused. ---
**Author:** ![widdershins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f0a364/32.png) [@widdershins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/widdershins)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078/38 "2003-09-04T11:21:38Z")
On VH-1’s _Behind The Music_ the Young Brothers said the name “AC/DC” came from a marking on their sister’s sewing machine she used to sew school boy uniforms for Angus. They said they found out about the bisexual connotation to the name from a cab driver, and were shocked as **Tengu** said. I heard the “Anti-Christ/Devil’s Child” supposed meaning in high school. Some friends and I used to seek out books, TV shows, and videos by religious minded folks warning of the evils of backmasking and overt Satanic imagery in heavy metal music. Quite unintentionally funny stuff in fact. Strange how you hear so little about backmasking now that vinyl records are mostly the domain of yard sales, audiophile purists, and hip-hop and club DJs. ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078/39 "2003-09-04T11:35:52Z")
“Led Zeppelin- Jimmy Page owns a house formally owned by Alister Crowley, an infamous English Satanist who died in 1947. Why would anyone own a house that was owned by Crowley? Maybe it was cheap, like “murder houses” that realators sell for cheap.” Just as a slight aside, Crowley was anti christian, but not actually satanic, the “gods” he worshipped were more like avatars of the pagan gods of Egypt and Europe, with a mixing in of eastern philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078/40 "2003-09-04T12:20:31Z")
Charles Manson belongs in this thread: [http://www.atwa.info/discog.htm](http://www.atwa.info/discog.htm) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-and-satanism-any-truth/199078.md?page=3)