# Music in triplet \*and\* "straight" time **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [January 22, 2023, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602 "2023-01-22T09:56:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![alovem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@alovem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alovem)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2023, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602/41 "2023-01-23T16:18:19Z")
Yeah, straight 4/4 and not what I’m after. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2023, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602/42 "2023-01-23T17:22:13Z")
I just realized that I screwed up “duple” and “triple” meter. What I meant in all cases is “simple” (beats divided in two) and “compound” (beats divided in three) meter. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602/43 "2023-01-25T08:28:44Z")
Would [Golden Brown](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Brown#Composition) by The Stranglers be the sort of thing you’re looking for? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/z-GUjA67mdc/maxresdefault.jpg "The Stranglers - Golden Brown (Restored Music Video)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-GUjA67mdc) > **['Golden Brown' by The Stranglers: The making of the strange punk waltz](https://www.goldradiouk.com/news/music/stranglers-golden-brown-lyrics-meaning-waltz/)** > > The Stranglers were known for their obscene lyrics and status as punk outcasts, but their best-known hit was a real sideways turn. ---
**Author:** ![Moonrise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonrise/32/14764_2.png) [@Moonrise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonrise)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602/44 "2023-01-25T08:46:09Z")
There’s definitely a change of meter, and thinking about it, the “feel” is a bit different, too. Perhaps that works. ---
**Author:** ![alovem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@alovem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alovem)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602/45 "2023-01-25T10:16:56Z")
No, it’s all straight time. It’s an odd rhythm. At the start, there’s a section that could be counted “1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3-4” (notice that the last repetition has four beats). It’s repeated throughout, but just as a section, the rest of the track being in 3/4 (1-2-3, 1-2-3, etc., without variation). ---
**Author:** ![Disinfectus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/disinfectus/32/11085_2.png) [@Disinfectus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disinfectus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602/46 "2023-01-26T01:51:37Z")
If my count is correct, we’ve come up with seven clear examples so far in this thread, most of which are over 40 years old. So not only is quite rare (my original contention) but with the way modern music is trending, it’s not going to become more common any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![alovem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@alovem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alovem)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602/47 "2023-01-26T13:07:43Z")
Nine, by my count. That’s a small base from which to draw such a conclusion, and I’ve contributed three (I don’t listen to anything modern). You could be right, though. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602/48 "2023-01-26T14:57:36Z")
“No Time At All” from the Broadway musical Pippin starts out in a rubato two-beat intro and then goes into a hard shuffle: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/RRC46cgJnnI/maxresdefault.jpg "No Time At All") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRC46cgJnnI) It’s almost like two separate songs between the first and second parts, so I’m not sure if it counts. I played piano in this musical in high school, and I feel like there may have been another song or two that changed rhythms like that. “On The Right Track” moves around from swing to a syncopated 4/4. “Extraordinary” goes from a shuffle in the begging, to a 3+3+3/8 to a driving 4/4 rock (the conductor’s score notates it as “straight driving rock”), as well. Oh, and “Finale” starts with a loose, swinging 3/4 before building up to a driving rock ending. But, yes, @Disinfectus, I do concede that by any reasonable definition of “quite rare,” it probably qualifies. Not as much as something like hearing 11/8 in Western popular music, but with the millions of songs out there, it makes up a very small percentage. ---
**Author:** ![Moonrise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonrise/32/14764_2.png) [@Moonrise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonrise)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602/49 "2023-01-27T09:08:13Z")
> [@alovem](#): > > No, it’s all straight time. It’s an odd rhythm. At the start, there’s a section that could be counted “1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3-4” The odd rhythm is obvious. What wasn’t was the feel. The “1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3” bits have some sort of “swing” or “lilt” while the “1-2-3-4” part sounds straighter. But it may be just me. ---
**Author:** ![alovem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@alovem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alovem)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602/50 "2023-01-27T09:32:27Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > …so I’m not sure if it counts. The triplet time (shuffle) is there, but there’s no straight time, so it’s not what I was looking for. > [@Moonrise](#): > > The odd rhythm is obvious. Maybe if you’ve read the linked article before listening. I had to listen a few times to catch it. > [@Moonrise](#): > > The “1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3” bits have some sort of “swing” or “lilt” while the “1-2-3-4” part sounds straighter. But it may be just me. Slowing down recordings (I use Audacity) often makes things clear, if you want to spend more time trying to figure this one out. I hear straight time throughout. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602/51 "2023-01-27T12:36:27Z")
> [@alovem](#): > > The triplet time (shuffle) is there, but there’s no straight time, so it’s not what I was looking for. The slow piano intro is straight eighths, or at least that’s how I hear it – the piano accompaniment is all straight . (And it’s written straight in the score.) That said, Irene does swing it a bit in the vocal. But it’s almost like a different song and pretty slow with some rubato – the main song is all shuffle. “Extraordinary” is a better example: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/n7UsfwetiLI/maxresdefault.jpg "Extraordinary") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7UsfwetiLI) Shuffled 4/4 to a 3+3+2 break to a driving 4/4 at the end. ---
**Author:** ![alovem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@alovem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alovem)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602/52 "2023-01-27T16:14:15Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > The slow piano intro is straight eighths, or at least that’s how I hear it Okay, I don’t want to have to judge every suggestion, but for me it’s more like _implied_ straight eighths, because of the rubato. That’s why I rejected it in my preceding post. I agree about Extraordinary. It’s a clearer example of what I’m looking for. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602/53 "2023-01-27T16:16:39Z")
Yeah, and I do agree that “No Time At All” isn’t a great example – the intro is quite separate from the song and the rubato doesn’t seem to establish a strong enough beat to make the change of feel apparent. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602/54 "2023-01-27T16:26:32Z")
Here’s one that alternates straight and swing: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/mKCFIJzI0tI/hqdefault.jpg "The Growlers - "Old Cold River" (Official)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKCFIJzI0tI) ---
**Author:** ![alovem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@alovem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alovem)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602/55 "2023-01-27T16:36:22Z")
Yeah, that’s a good one, because it takes a bit of concentration to discern the two rhythmic contexts. I had to concentrate, anyway. For those of you playing along at home, that last one is straight eighths until the swung section at 1:06, and the rest of the track is a succession of those two parts. “1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and” vs. “1 and uh 2 and uh 3 and uh 4 and uh.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602/56 "2023-01-27T17:05:51Z")
“Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds” might also qualify for you. It definitely goes from a 3 feel to a 2 feel, but the three is more like a flowing 6/8, but it’s counted in 3s before a shift to the regular 4/4. “Mound” by Phish is a quirky example of one. It kind of starts in rhythmic chaos, with the drums outlining a typical swampy blues 12/8 type of groove. At 0:30-ish, all the instruments are aligned and playing a typical blues shuffle, when all of a sudden the guitar comes in at about 0:43 and starts playing a straight 4/4 over the 12/8, and by about 1:00, the drums get into an eight-note rock pattern, then some weird rhythms happen (with the guitars on the quarters and the snare on 4-and, I think – depends on where you hear the 1 there.) Probably not exactly what you’re looking for, but I think interesting in the way it shifts from a 12/8 to 4/4 by forcing the 4/4 over the 12/8. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/x8cPokPa--I/maxresdefault.jpg "Mound") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8cPokPa--I) ---
**Author:** ![alovem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@alovem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alovem)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602/57 "2023-01-27T17:12:42Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds” might also qualify for you. Oh, good one! Right there under my metaphorical nose and I missed it. Mound is also a really good suggestion. The two rhythmic contexts are superimposed rather than juxtaposed (I used the latter term incorrectly upthread), but the contrast is clear and very interesting to hear. If this were a contest, you’d have won just for those last two suggestions. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602/58 "2023-01-27T18:12:17Z")
Chicago again. Saturday in the Park. The verse and chorus are straight 8 but the bridge (slow motion riders …) is swung. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PLiMy4NaSKc/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AG-AoAC8AGKAgwIABABGHIgTCg0MA8=&rs=AOn4CLA_fWGlt9uEjTvh3Va0FEOmYbN75g "Saturday in the Park - Chicago") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLiMy4NaSKc) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602/59 "2023-01-27T19:03:24Z")
Excellent! That’s one of the ones that was bouncing in the back of my head that I couldn’t dig up. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2023, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602/60 "2023-01-28T18:30:56Z")
Swing time/shuffle beat/_notes inégales_ alternating with straight time is mathematically related to the _tresillo_ effect of playing 2 against 3. The “Spanish tinge,” as Jelly Roll Morton called it, often shows up in 3/4 against 6/8, which can be heard simultaneously in the 2nd movement of Maurice Ravel’s string quartet, and alternately in “I like to be in America” from _West Side Story_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-in-triplet-and-straight-time/978602.md?page=4)