Music subgenres revisited

Smackfu - I could swear I read a description that said that Aqua is British…Borders Books and Music, IIRC. Clarification?

Laughing Lagomorph - It wasn’t live, and in fact sounded exactly like the Lynyrd Skynyrd song I already had. I deleted it.

I’ve seen a lot of songs that got the wrong group. How this happens, I have no idea. I mean, no matter what the song has to originate from someone with an original copy of the CD which had the song. I suppose someone along the way could be deliberately trying to mislead everyone, but why would anyone want to do that? (If it’s a prank, it’s an unbelievably lame one.)

Oh, and I’m not too concerned about all these little subgenres, really…I just thought it’d be a good idea to check up on my files now that I had the new program. (I used to have something called MusicMatch, but it kept crashing, so I switched to RealPlayer…which doesn’t allow you to edit file information.) I’ve used maybe nine or ten choices in all. The only thing I’m really adamant on fixing are the really bad mistakes…there was one file sharer who labelled everything “blues” for some weird reason (nothing even remotely blusey among them). It’s kinda fun, really, and I’m making things a little easier for the rest of the community. For some reason, I’m a little reluctant to use “pop”, not because of any ingrained prejudice against it but because I think it gets thrown around too much. (I’m not convinced Bon Jovi is pop, and Ayumi Hamasaki isn’t even close.)

whistlepig - Well, Tower Records still has that big honkin’ “Pop/Rock/Soul” section (and a really small “Dance” section). IMHO, that’s a bit, well, lazy. I’m pretty much going for a happy medium.

Ok…wow…i’m soo gona have to get on your case on your definition of Industrial. “Sample laden metal” may have been industrial in the early 90/late 80s on the Wax Trax lable, but by NO means those bands represent industrial. Industrial is a lot more eccletctic, but from what i’ve gathered it’s for the most part derived from electronics, samples, found sound, occasional guitar(live or sampled),and anythin in between, as i said before, the key to Industrial is it’s ecclectic quality. But for the most part it’s just plain odd.

Not to prolong the silly “new wave” argument, but I believe the classification was to the “new wave” of bands that flew under the popular radio radar, until the advent of video. Radio stations were using consultants and force feeding the public bands like Yes and ELP. MTV gave this new group of bands another outlet, a way around corporate radio. The moniker was given to a broad genre and held many different sounds.

Yo, I’m still working on digging darkwave. (Hint: it ain’t a hairstyle.) I got turned on to it thanks to DKW’s other subgenres thread a few months ago, when I wondered out loud what the heck is “darkwave” which I found in my stripper dropdown list and good ol’ hazel-rah explained it for me. (Hint: The Soil Bleeds Black, which is fairly straightforward medieval stuff.)

Dividing up metal, punk, and electronica/club into infinite micro-genres that you have to be an obsessed aficionado to tell the difference between? All I can say is, some folks have too much time on their hands. In particular, all those alleged subgenres of electronica sound the same to me. A mechanical synth-beat with random aimless tones drifting over a monotonous bass; every so often a breathy voice says something unintelligible. BFD.

Ishkur’s Guide to Electronic Music is a neat and fun site for figuring out what all the different subgenres of electronic music are. He’s got it all categorized, with explanations and samples of the different types.

Yeah. It’s just another form of sectarianism, really, complete with dogma and exclusion (Re: “Nailbomb is/isn’t industrial because…”)

You get the same problems in the classical music world; the argument over what is or isn’t “Early Music” rages on, albeit in a somewhat more subdued form than previously, and I automatically snarl every time I hear anyone use the term “Pre-Classical”.

And no, “Early Music” does not refer to Elvis.

Ooh! I have a recording of that somewhere…

*Push a razor blade into your nose,
Whip your partner with a rubber hose,
Spit at the band, cause that’s the way it goes
When you’re doing the Punk Polka!

Jump-jump-jump-jump up and down in space
Jab a safety pin into your face
Excuse me while I leave the human race
To do the Punk Polka!*

:slight_smile:

Pardon for my blunder at the top of the page…it’s http://www.eurodancehits.com. Note: It really messes up your browser screen no matter what you’re using unless you have some kind of popup killer.

Okay, I now have a clear idea of what Southern Rock is. It’s a distinct style which is kind of like rock and roll, kind of like country, but not the same as either. Examples: Creedence Clearwater Revival, early The Eagles, John Mellancamp, Oak Ridge Boys, and Bruce Hornsby & The Range. (This happens to be one of my favorite genres, BTW.)

Vocal isn’t the same as A Capella…the latter is singing only, no instruments. The former, as I understand it now, refers specifically to bands consisting only of singers; i.e. no instrumentalists in the band. They still used “hired” instrumentals (how exactly depends on the band, I guess). The latest crop of “male vocal bands” are a good example.

Bit of advice to anyone else using Winamp: A lot of artists spread out into multiple genres. Ayumi Hamasaki isn’t pure House like I stated earlier; she ventures into normal dance and even straight-arrow pop. The Eagles, of course, have long since changed to mainstream rock.

“National Folk” is patriotic music; The Stars and Strips Forever, God Bless America, The Battle Hymn of the Republic, etc. Foreign national songs count too, like The Internationale. Official songs…Hail to the Chief, Hail Columbia, etc…probably deserve their own category. (Thank goodness for the ID3v2 tag.)

And “pop”…to dive into that raging debate again…is music that doesn’t fit into any specific category, because it’s designed to be popular and not fill any particular niche. As a rule of thumb, if it’s a song that you can’t find a purpose for, it’s pop. Something like that. Alternative, in all its forms, is “anti-pop”; i.e. it aims directly away from the pop market. Whether or not the songs are popular is irrelevant.

Badtz Maru - Brr. Very informative (and at times unintentionally funny), but…I’ll just stick with the ten, I’m using. Then again, I’m probably up to fifteen by now. Maybe even twenty…man, what a program. :slight_smile:

I going to have to respectfully disagree with you here, DKW, but its not a big deal. To me Southern Rock still means guitar-heavy bands, like Lynyrd Skynyrd, 38 Special, the Allman Brothers, and Thin Lizzie. They generally formed South of the Mason Dixon line, in the former Confederacy. To my ear, there isn’t a lot of traditional “Country” influence in their sound.
Of the bands you listed above, the ones I have the most trouble with are Bruce Hornsby (piano dominated, jazz/folk influenced, from San Francisco) and John Mellencamp (from Indiana, no overwhelming guitar sound). I would put Mellencamp in whatever category you put such “All American” singer-songwriters as Bruce Springsteen, Tom Petty, Bob Seeger and Bob Dylan. I’m not sure where Bruce Hornsby would go, but then we’re talking about your music collection, not mine!
The Eagles and Oak Ridge boys are definitely Country influenced rock, Creedence less so.

I going to have to respectfully disagree with you here, DKW, but its not a big deal. To me Southern Rock still means guitar-heavy bands, like Lynyrd Skynyrd, 38 Special, the Allman Brothers, and Thin Lizzie. They generally formed South of the Mason Dixon line, in the former Confederacy. To my ear, there isn’t a lot of traditional “Country” influence in their sound.
Of the bands you listed above, the ones I have the most trouble with are Bruce Hornsby (piano dominated, jazz/folk influenced, from San Francisco) and John Mellencamp (from Indiana, no overwhelming guitar sound). I would put Mellencamp in whatever category you put such “All American” singer-songwriters as Bruce Springsteen, Tom Petty, Bob Seeger and Bob Dylan. I’m not sure where Bruce Hornsby would go, but then we’re talking about your music collection, not mine!
The Eagles and Oak Ridge boys are definitely Country influenced rock, Creedence less so.

Southern rock coincides with Boogie Rock Which is heavy guitar rock with strong southern and blues influences - but slickly produced; wheras real Southern Rock has a looser jamlike feel. I’d categorize later ZZ Top and Foghat as Boogie Rock. (I think Foghat was a British group even).
Also if we hear “country” influences in Skynyrd, its due to the fact that today’s country music is very influenced by southern rock and not vice-versa. Country music from the early 1970’s was a lot softer than it is today. The main influence of country in Skynyrd is in Ronnie Van Zandt’s lyrics. I think they were more musically influenced by Black Sabbath and Zeppelin - guys from Birmingham, England not Birmingham, Alabama.

I listen to quite a bit of Brazilian music, but I get the styles mixed up. For example, someone once explained (jokingly) to me that the difference between axé and pagode music was the number of dancers on the stage during the performance. Both are derived from Samba.
I also wonder since there is Bossa Nova if there was aBossa Velha style that went before…oh well.

Back to rock, how about Def Leppard? I always thought they were not heavy enough for heavy metal (after their first album anyway), to slick to be plain old hard rock -especially after Rick Allen’s accident forced them to adopt an electronic drum sound, not sappy enough to be pop metal or hair metal, yet did several ballads…they were very British, yet very American sounding at times.

Thin Lizzie was (is?) from Ireland.

Now we could put on our music-historian hats and say a lot of Southern music can be traced back to Scots-Irish immigrants in the 17th century, and so there’s a reason why an Irish band would have a southern rock sound, but let’s not push it. If I had to classify the genre of Thin Lizzy, I would call it “Rock-'n’Roll.” Not very specific, but then there are tons of bands you could name, especially in the 1970s, that just played hard rock and don’t lend themselves to micro-subdivided categories. Be Bop Deluxe. The Sensational Alex Harvey Band. Rick Springfield. The Michael Stanley Band. The J. Geils Band. The Who. The Rolling Stones.

You know. The Stones said it: “It’s Only Rock-‘n’-Roll.” What else could you call it?

O.K., I new I was pushing it with that one. I really only know one song by them, if that…didn’t they do “The Boys are Back in Town”? That one sounded like it could fit into the Southern Rock category, as I define it. Someone else mentioned ZZ Top, they are a much better fit. I don’t feel really comfortable defining bands by where they are from geographically, in general. For example, UB40 is a Reggae band, but from England, not Jamaica. I just had to put my foot down with Bruce Hornsby and John Mellencamp being put in “Southern Rock”.

Well, sure. But where’s the fun in that? Seriously, I think that part of the problem DKW is running into is trying to fit yesterday’s music into today’s categories. It’s kind of like trying to classify the fauna of the Jurrasic period by today’s taxonomy.

I’m trying to preview this mess, but the boards are really slow. I apologize in advance if its unreadable.

Just for the record, my main concern is that I’m sharing all these music files, and I want to present them right. You know, because some users could get turned off to file sharing due to badly mislabeled files, and I don’t want that.

It’s not too hard. The important thing is to listen to the song thoroughly and note all the subtle things. I agree totally that a short description doesn’t do any justice to musical styles; it’s meant to be listened to. (BTW, good site, Badtz Maru, even if it takes a really long time to load.) Besides that, it’s best to be familiar with the artist or group and have an idea of what they intended to be; especially important for all the “alternative” bands. Don’t be afraid to make an educated guess if you have to. No one’s going to get mad at you if you designate Def Leppard as plain-ol “Rock” (which I kinda suspect they were all along).

Some of my tougher choices:

Every pre-1982 mainstream rock song - Classic Rock. The exact definition of this has changed over the years, but from where I stand I think the start of the 80’s is a good cutoff point. (It’s been a long time since putting another dime in a jukebox accomplished anything.)
Pleasure Principle, Janet Jackson - Techno. It just has that electronic, percussion-y feel to it. I think techno is a flexible genre and doesn’t have to sound like Final Audition or Attack The Music.
Everything by 10,000 Maniacs - Alternative, mainly because they never really became household names. And some of those songs are just weird.
Who Let The Dogs Out, Baha Men - Latin, based on the group and not much else. (Is “jock jams” a legit subgenre?)
M, Ayumi Hamasaki - Rock. Much too slow to be any of the dance styles, doesn’t sound anything like a power ballad, different rhythm than soul or R&B…what the heck, Rock is close enough. (If you haven’t guessed, Ayu has a very diverse discography.)
Most of Bus Stop’s music - Trip-hop. Whatever that is. It sounds like some of the hiphoppy songs on Pump It Up, if that’s any help. (Maybe I should change it to “fusion”…)
Where Does My Heart Beat Now, Celine Dion - Power Ballad. So help me. (IMHO, she’s a great singer, but with her background I don’t think she was ever cut out for American pop.)
Surfer Bird, The Trashmen - Humor. For all I know, there actually may have been a serious reason for repetitive, funny-sounding lyrics, but damned if I can even guess at it.
The Way To Your Heart, Soul Sister - Soul. AFAIK, Motown is a record label, not a subgenre, so the correct tag is Soul. I can’t put this under “oldies” because I hate oldies music with a raging passion, and this was one of my favorite songs as a teenager.
Zankoku Na Tenshi No Yoni, Megumi Hayashibara - Dance. Yes, yes, I know this is the theme song for Neon Genesis Evangelion, and I know Winamp has an “anime” genre, but this is a four-minute song, and I seriously doubt the whole thing was ever played during the cartoon’s actual intro.
Blue, Eiffel 65 - Techno. Technically they’re something called “Italo-Dance”, but the difference is so subtle, I figured it wasn’t worth the bother. It has the electronica element as well, but not enough to actually be electronica.
What Is Love, Haddaway - House. Too smooth to be techno and too “soft” to be Eurodance.
In The House of Stone and Light, Martin Page - Christian Rock. Nearly all his other music is much more obviously Christian-influenced than this more generically spiritual piece (which, no doubt, is why it’s his only mainstream hit), but the undertones are definitely there.
Morning Has Broken, Cat Stevens - Gospel. I know Stevens is no bible thumper, but if a song about morning, a new day, praise, Heaven, and a talking blackbird isn’t gospel, I’m Pat Robertson.
Busy Child, Crystal Method - Rave. Hey, it’s long, it has repetitive stanzas, it has minimal vocals, it’s not particularly melodic…what more do you need to know?
Magic Carpet Ride, Crystal Method - Dance. They call it a “techno mix”, but I see very little technoish about it (CM’s additions are actually more hip-hop than anything). Mainstream dance suffices.
Axel F, Harold Faltermyer - Techno. See note on Janet Jackson.
Steal My Sunshine, Len - Alternative. See note on 10,000 Maniacs.
Everything by Steve Winwood - Fusion. See note on Celine Dion. (IMHO, his work is actually a fusion of “normal” rock, southern-country-bluegrass-whatever rock, and ska.)
One Night in Bangkok, Murray Head - Showtunes. I figure, it’s from a play, and this is the unedited not-for-radio version.
Shake Your Bon Bon, Ricky Martin - Rock & Roll. Yes, I know this guy’s Latin, but listen to this song. Tell me Elvis Presley couldn’t have done something like this.
Mr. Jones, Counting Crows - Rock. Not Alternative. Bruce Springsteen did this brand of rock. The singer wants to be like Bob Dylan, for crying out loud!
Breakfast at Tiffany’s, Deep Blue Something - Rock. Again, I doubt that they even tried to be alternative. Of course, it’s hard to tell since they didn’t stick around too long…
If I Only Knew, Tom Jones - Jazz. “Another wonder, am I gonna dig a hole ten feet undah / Undah sea, undah me, undah you undivdied…undecided.” (OWWW! :D)
Heart and Soul, T’Pau - Synthpop. Really hard one. I figured this didn’t really qualify as hip-hop, it’s too slow to be dance, it’s defintely not a power ballad, and I don’t think there were any Australian new wave bands…go with the keyboard thing and get on with my life. (It’d help if they weren’t such a flash in the pan, of course.)
Let’s Get It On / Third Strike, from Street Fighter 3: Third Strike - Hip-hop. IMHO, the “game” category refers to music created by the game company’s music staff which appears in the same form as in the music file in that game. Both of these songs were done by a third party and are much longer than they are in the actual game. Hence, the descriptive genre.

I’ve found that it helps to create new categories as need be. I’ve made “Narrative” for the likes of C.W. McCall and Tennessee Ernie Ford and “Romantic” for all the really lovey-dovey songs, e.g. Tender Love.

One of the few songs that has me completely stumped is Toy Soldiers, by Martika. It doesn’t have the new wave sound of David Bowie or Falco, and I’d think you would need more than one successful album to be seriously considered “pop” (is it just me, or were the early 90’s a really bad time for one-hit flameouts?).

I have some definitions for some of yours, DKW.

This has a strong Italo Disco sound.

Baha Men are a fine example of Miami Bass, a subgenre of Breakbeat.

I’d guess it’s either Vocal House or Club House.

Big Beat

I’d say Classic Rock. Yeah, they may not be from before 1982, but they are practically indistinguishable from Van Morrison.

[dubious name dropping]I am 2 degrees of sexual separation from one of the guys in Deep Blue Something, the second girl I ever slept with had slept with one of the guys in Deep Blue Something before we met.[/dubious name dropping] I’d say they are alternative rock, they have that whiney yodelling vocal style that you don’t hear in what was once considered mainstream.

They most certainly did, particularly in their later years (listen to Howl at the Moon and tell me what it sounds like).
Also, they were not a departure from punk rock they were the Forerunners of what became Punk rock. They were pre-Sex Pistols by several years. The ramones were a self-described reaction to the bloated corporate art-rock of the day (genesis,moody blues etc).
Finally there were a number of “new wave” bands such as XTC and squeeze that did not rely much on synthesizers. Organ/piano, yes! Synthesizer, No!

Here’s my take on some of the House styles (House is probably the first electronic genre i listened to and fell in love with)

Deep House - Very melodic, dream like groves, romantic

Vocal House - This is house music with soul type lyrics. Many complain electronica lacks lyrics, well this style has it.

Hard House/Happy Hardcore - I’d classify the two as the same…i cant tell too much of a difference. The beats are very simple, fast, and repetitive, and has minimal melody and lyrics. I find it far too repetitive for my tastes. Supposedly happy hardcore makes us of some other song. Look for the Tetris, and Super Mario brother’s mixes (yes kids, there’s actual dance songs made from the music from these games)

Booty Bass/Miami Bass - A typical example is what Luke puts out. 2 live Crew is also another example (listen to “hoodrat”). Lyrics are often very sexual and vulgar. Bass beats are strong.

Latin House - Often a popular Latin song will be sampled and a house beat and sampling applied. Boricua Anthem by C&C music Factory with El Presidente is a good example. Also: A Mover la Colita, and Cafe Con Leche (apologies, i forget the artists)

Progressive house: Like trance, but has a slower house beat. This seems to be what most house DJs are spinning now (well at least the ones here :)).

Hip-House: Basically remixed samples of Hip-Hop songs. I suggest Armand Van Helden’s Sample Slaya “Welcome to the Meat Market”. My fave off that album is “Crooklyn Anthem”

Latin? Hardly. Latin to me conjures up mostly Merengue, Salsa, Ranchera, etc.

Here’s what THEY say about their music:

"Natives of the Bahamas, Baha Men are long-time proponents Junakanoo, The indigenous rhythm of their homeland. This West African-inspired rhythm is traditionally played on goat-skin drums and cowbells on the morning after Christmas, during the Bahamas’ massive Junkanoo parade, which begins at 3a.m. and doesn’t stop until dawn. But Baha Men have taken Junkanoo to new places through their recordings. “My vision,” says Isiah Taylor, the band’s founding member, “Was to take the instruments from our street festival, and put them together with the stage instruments like bass, drums and guitar. I wanted to blend them all together in order to get the Junkanoo music out to the world.”