# Music Ties vs dotted notes vs a half note can someone explain the difference? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 6, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002 "2015-02-06T21:01:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002/1 "2015-02-06T21:01:53Z")
I understand Ties can extend a note across two measures. Thats easy to grasp. Ties within a measure are giving me problems. I cued up [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yajrv_-ifUs&feature=player_detailpage#t=224) to an example. That seems no different than a half note. (two quarters make a half) the 2nd measure ties two 1/8 notes giving a quarter tied to another quarter. another half note. I recall from high school orchestra that ties indicate legato. Legato means smooth or fluidity right? I can’t recall the difference in playing a half note vs two tied quarter notes. Someone told me on a guitar a pull off or hammer on can be used on ties. Slurs I get. you’re blending two notes with no separation. Slurs can be tricky unless the notes are adjacent (d to e, f to g) I have no idea how G to C could be slurred. they are too far apart on the keyboard or guitar fretboard. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002/2 "2015-02-06T21:08:38Z")
**dotted notes vs ties** Say you have a quarter note and eighth note tied. why not just show a dotted quarter note? Same thing with a dotted half note vs a tied half and quarter note. whats the difference? whats the difference in the rhythm count and how it sounds? ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002/3 "2015-02-06T21:09:46Z")
Don’t confuse yourself with the slur/legato thing until you fully understand ties. Just look at it in terms of beats. Yes, a quarter note tied to another quarter note essentially equals a half note (i.e. it’s held for two beats). So why didn’t they just write it as a half note? Well, because maybe it crosses a bar line, or maybe the two beats the composer wants you to hold it for are beats 2 and 3, in which case it’s arguably more intuitive to see two quarter notes rather than a half note. It’s difficult to use your video as an example unless you indicate a time stamp you’re looking at. Can you point to the exact problem? We’ll be able to offer more help that way. ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002/4 "2015-02-06T21:12:12Z")
Didn’t see your second post. There’s no difference whatsoever in the rhythm count or how it sounds. It’s purely an aesthetic/communication thing; if the notes after or before it make a dotted note unwieldy, then a tie is preferred. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002/5 "2015-02-06T22:06:34Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > **dotted notes vs ties** > > Say you have a quarter note and eighth note tied. why not just show a dotted quarter note? Same thing with a dotted half note vs a tied half and quarter note. whats the difference? > > whats the difference in the rhythm count and how it sounds? They sound the same and the way they are counted. There are just notational conventions as to when a tie is preferred. For example, if you have the equivalent of a quarter note, but it starts on the “and” of a beat, it’s generally written as a tie. If it’s on the beat, then it’s written as a quarter note. It’s generally easier to read because you can see where the main beat subdivisions are. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002/6 "2015-02-06T22:09:03Z")
Ok, I copied/pasted two small sections of the 3 page sheet music. Only a small sample. > **[Photobucket | Make your memories fun!](https://s242.photobucket.com/user/aceplace57/media/TiesandSlurs.jpg.html)** > > Make your memories fun! The first section is the intro, and I rest 2 beats before singing. 1 2 3 4 and so my count is 1 2 3 4, 1 2 and 3 4 , 1 2 3 4 with tied notes on the second bar extending into the third bar I have to keep up with where to tie and where to rest. Right? the rests make this piece a bit tricky. counting is the only way to make it work. second example from page 2 ties and slurs I have to slur d to middle c can I get some help on counting this? please? 😉 it’s been 30 years since high school orchestra and even then we had the conductor/teacher helping us clapping out the rhythm. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002/7 "2015-02-06T22:10:50Z")
I was looking around to find some guidelines on tie usage, and there is [this write-up from Indiana University](http://www.music.indiana.edu/departments/academic/composition/style-guide/#rhythm) that summarizes it pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002/8 "2015-02-06T22:15:35Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > can I get some help on counting this? please? 😉 When I count, I personally count through the whole thing 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & and play the notes where they fall. So for measure starting “-member dad” it’s **1** & **2 &** 3 & **4 &**. (Each bolded red beat indicates where a new note is played). ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002/9 "2015-02-06T22:20:54Z")
Bonus question. what’s the deal with those tiny little notes in the bar _read quite a stor - ry_ there’s a half note e then a tiny little e note. I never saw anything like that before in my life. is that by any chance a misprint? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002/10 "2015-02-06T22:23:39Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Bonus question. > what’s the deal with those tiny little notes in the bar _read quite a stor - ry_ there’s a half note e then a tiny little e note. I never saw anything like that before in my life. > > is that by any chance a misprint? No, they’re for the other verses, where there are extra syllables to account for. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002/11 "2015-02-06T22:27:20Z")
ah, that makes sense. thanks pulykamell I’ll look at the link you gave on ties. It’s rough trying to relearn this stuff after so many years. As I said, even in high school our teacher would clap out the rhythm on the first day of rehearsals. Sometimes he’d clap it out again (more loudly) days later if we were screwing up a measure. LOL So, I never had to work out any tricky rhythms on my own. Not to mention I had 25 other people playing all around me. It was pretty easy to get into the groove and play along with everybody else. If we had an extended rest the conductor always cued us when to start playing again. I always tended to play more by ear than actually counting. Being the starring member of a one man band is an entirely different experience. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002/12 "2015-02-06T22:43:05Z")
**Moderator Action** Since this concerns music theory, it is best suited to CS. Moving thread from General Questions to Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002/13 "2015-02-06T23:23:05Z")
My singing teacher and I discussed an easy piece for me to work on. This ties in nicely with my scale work. it’s basically C D E or descending scales E D C in several places. Do Re Mi and Mi Re Do Also the tune has a very limited range. I think the highest note is a G. Surprisingly enough, this song hit number 7 on the country charts in 1986. Just proves that a simple song can still be very popular and launch a career. thanks again for everyone’s help. I’ll post a link to an mp3 playing the melody line on the guitar Sat or Sunday. It’ll be good practice to make certain I’ve got the counts right. I’ll eventually learn the vocals but won’t ask anyone to suffer through that. LOL ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002/14 "2015-02-07T00:30:20Z")
After you’ve got that under your belt, groove on these [notations](http://courses.unt.edu/josephklein/files/90_NOTATION_08-10.pdf). I’m not making fun of you 🙂 – music notation and its history is a thing I’m into. I’ll dig up some comprehensible examples about why ties and dotted notes suck–in _some_ musical systems. ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002/15 "2015-02-07T07:19:35Z")
Another thing you can do to get better at it is to print out the music, and write “1 2 3 4” over each bar, where the beats lie. That way you can really take the time for your brain to figure it out, rather than rushing it by playing or singing it. If you want, you can scan it after you do that, and we can “grade” you. 🙂 (But seriously, we can tell you how you did, for educational purposes…) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002/16 "2015-02-07T21:54:43Z")
> [@DooWahDiddy](#): > > Another thing you can do to get better at it is to print out the music, and write “1 2 3 4” over each bar, where the beats lie. That way you can really take the time for your brain to figure it out, rather than rushing it by playing or singing it. If you want, you can scan it after you do that, and we can “grade” you. 🙂 (But seriously, we can tell you how you did, for educational purposes…) I had a similar idea last night and got page 1 annotated with the count and my solfege symbols. Ties are in red just as to remind me. The note I’m actually singing or holding is directly under the count. [![](https://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff307/aceplace57/DaddysHandsPage1.jpg) ](https://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff307/aceplace57/DaddysHandsPage1.jpg) I’ll eventually get where I can read the rhythm on the fly. But, I’m still trying to get over 20 years of rust off my music reading skills. It helps to sit down and really work out the rhythm first before attempting to play it. There’s a couple notes that dip below my root note (middle C) that I’ll ask my vocal teacher about. See what solfege she wants me to use. Solfege really helps me learn the melody before attempting to sing the actual verses. I never, ever thought I’d sing. it’s something I’ve avoided all my life. But, here I am. going for it. let me know if you see a screw up on my rhythm notation. I’ll finish up page 2 tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Achren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@Achren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achren)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002/17 "2015-02-07T22:19:43Z")
Looks good to me. As far as reading rhythm on the fly, someone else might have a better suggestion, but I’d say see if you can find a cheap hymnal or a large book of simple-to-medium songs and then try to clap out the rhythm of one or two songs every day. Then when you’ve got that down you can work on solfege/sight reading! (When I learned sight reading it was always using solfege) ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002/18 "2015-02-07T22:27:44Z")
The notation is getting screwed up pretty much every time you have an “&”. E.g., in the 5th bar that starts “…member Daddy’s hands”, the 1 and 2 are correct, the & is correct but the 3 should be above the tied quarter note, the 4 should be above the subsequent 1/8th note, the next & would be above the next 1/8th note and the 1 shouldn’t be there, it belongs to the next bar. I’ve fixed that bar here: [Dropbox - Music timing.png - Simplify your life](https://www.dropbox.com/s/gnzhub2gz9se6g9/Music%20timing.png?dl=0) There are other bars with similar problems. Make sure the numbers are falling on the downbeats, that way you shouldn’t end up with a “1” at the end of a bar. There should only be the numbers 1 to 4 in any bar that is written in 4/4 time as this is. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002/19 "2015-02-08T00:16:40Z")
Thank you. I wasn’t trying to line up my counts exactly over the notes. The solfege is directly under the counts. But, not the actual musical notes. But perhaps it would be easier to read and follow if I did get the counts and notes aligned. I wasn’t sure where to put the 1 for ties that extend across measures. You actually begin playing and sustaining the note at the end of the measure. I can easily shift the 1 back over into the measure where it really belongs. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002/20 "2015-02-08T00:28:17Z")
> [@Achren](#): > > Looks good to me. As far as reading rhythm on the fly, someone else might have a better suggestion, but I’d say see if you can find a cheap hymnal or a large book of simple-to-medium songs and then try to clap out the rhythm of one or two songs every day. Then when you’ve got that down you can work on solfege/sight reading! (When I learned sight reading it was always using solfege) I’ve bought several good music songbooks. One really thick one with Emmylou Harris’ songs. A Merle Haggard songbook. Even some vintage Bread sheet music I found on Ebay. I’ll start making a point to look at a new piece of music every day. Clap out the rhythm. Originally, I had wanted to play strictly by ear and Tabs. Which is fine for rhythm guitar. My vocal teacher convinced me to start using sheet music. I told her it had been over 20 years since I’d read any. But, it’s starting to come back to me now. Like riding a bicycle. Vocals are hard enough anyhow for beginners. No need to make it ten times harder trying to sing by ear. 🙂 Sheet music was invented for a valid reason. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/music-ties-vs-dotted-notes-vs-a-half-note-can-someone-explain-the-difference/712002.md?page=2)