# Musical ethnic cliches-- Do these tunes have names? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 22, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998 "2004-08-22T19:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998/21 "2004-08-23T14:54:36Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > A brief little squeeze of street-cafe accordion to signify France Funny thing is, I usually associate brass arrangements with France (I’ve almost started threads as to why this is the case, cuz I don’t know). The few times I’ve heard something meant to evoke France it’s been more along the lines of fanfare. Street-cafe accordian to me would evoke Italy. > [@](#): > > Western = lots of choices…there’s that slow-pony thing (1.56.51.56.5), the minor guitar strumming, the “Bonanza Theme Song” dum da da dum da da dum da da… There’s also Good, Bad, and the Ugly. ---
**Author:** ![MisterThyristor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecccb3/32.png) [@MisterThyristor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MisterThyristor)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998/22 "2004-08-23T19:35:35Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Hillbilly = either a snippet of “Flop-eared mule” on the fiddle or some “Dueling Banjos”; for a more flatlander south, sometimes a little steel guitar or a fragment of “Dixie” For hillbilly, I’ve more often heard “Turkey in the Straw” on the fiddle. “Danny Boy” seems to be the stereotypical Irish tenor song. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998/23 "2004-08-23T19:54:29Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > I wonder if the reverse is true. If other countries have music that signifies American. An electric guitar riff or maybe some Sousa. I was just wondering that too. But I’d bet on Yankee Doodle Dandy or some cowboy music. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998/24 "2004-08-24T01:41:57Z")
If I remember anything from my Music class, it’s that some musical scales—like the [harmonic minor “arabian” scale](http://www.twoevilmonks.org/firefly/ffimages/season1/103/ff106131.jpg), or the Chinese pentatonic scale—can themselves be mistaken for or used as ethnic-sounding “tunes,” in the right context. Ranchoth (That, and I learned that a surprising number of composers died after going insane. But that’s neither here or there.) ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998/25 "2004-08-24T01:45:48Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Western = lots of choices…there’s that slow-pony thing (1.56.51.56.5), the minor guitar strumming, the “Bonanza Theme Song” dum da da dum da da dum da da… “Bad guy comin’ in, Arnie! Minor key!” ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998/26 "2004-08-24T01:53:56Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > If I remember anything from my Music class, it’s that some musical scales—like the [harmonic minor “arabian” scale](http://www.twoevilmonks.org/firefly/ffimages/season1/103/ff106131.jpg), or the Chinese pentatonic scale—can themselves be mistaken for or used as ethnic-sounding “tunes,” in the right context. Sadly, many music teachers will tell you such things. There’s another thread somewhere about teacher’s ignorance regarding Columbus. If they got that one wrong, then who could expect a knowledge of ethnomusicology? Arabic and Chinese music each have their own tonal systemts, quite unlike a harmonic minor or pentatonic scale. If those scales ‘sound Chinese’ to us, it’s because of our perceptions, nor because of the scales. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998/27 "2004-08-24T01:55:19Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > (That, and I learned that a surprising number of composers died after going insane. But that’s neither here or there.) It was all Syphilis. Spread by Clara Schumann. That’s why they never told you the details 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998/28 "2004-08-24T02:39:15Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I was just wondering that too. But I’d bet on Yankee Doodle Dandy or some cowboy music. Yeah, I could see Yankee Doodle (in the Bugs Bunny tradition with just the flute and drum) and I’ve heard Dueling Banjos for the south (often used disparagingly for the “inbred redneck” kind of stereotype). ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998/29 "2004-08-24T02:51:42Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > . . . And the Middle Eastern snake charming music? . . . That would be [The Streets of Cairo](http://www.shira.net/streets-of-cairo.htm) . ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998/30 "2004-08-24T06:00:03Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > If those scales ‘sound Chinese’ to us, it’s because of our perceptions, nor because of the scales. Um…isn’t that what I just said? Well, if not, it’s what I intended. And it’s what the teacher said, as a matter of fact. (Though since we were focusing on western music.) ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998/31 "2004-08-24T11:11:30Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Um…isn’t that what I just said? > > Well, if not, it’s what I intended. And it’s what the teacher said, as a matter of fact. (Though since we were focusing on western music.) Sorry, yes, I misread you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998/32 "2004-08-24T13:05:57Z")
For Native Americans, TV, movies and cartoons used to give us the **“Indian war chant”** as still used today by Atlanta Braves and Florida State fans. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998/33 "2004-08-24T18:59:08Z")
That “slow-movin’ ponies (or burros) music” in Westerns and parodies of Westerns, particularly cartoons, is the “On the Trail” movement from Ferde Grofé’s Grand Canyon Suite. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998/34 "2004-08-24T23:08:14Z")
I think the word people are looking for is a _motif_. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998/35 "2004-08-24T23:21:43Z")
A motif is something entirely different. It’s an identifiable feature (melodic, harmonic, rhythmic or whatever), often very small and simple, which is developed and elaborated through a composition. No matter how identifiable the Kung Fu Fighting ‘Chinese’ tune is, I’ve never heard it used as a motif. (Of course, I’m prepared to be corrected, and would be fascinated to hear the results…) ---
**Author:** ![quiltguy154](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ad7895/32.png) [@quiltguy154](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quiltguy154)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998/36 "2004-08-25T00:42:12Z")
Hey, what about the Italians? A mandoline[no, not the kitchen gadget, the musical instrument] playing anyone of a number of easily-recognizable “street songs”[Santa Lucia, Return to Sorrento, Funiculi Funicula, etc. Heck, I wonder what “Danny Boy” would sound like on a mandoline] is quite stereotypical. Think of any of several scenes in the movie “Moonstruck.” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998/37 "2004-08-25T03:21:36Z")
Italian music-perhaps “Oh Sole Mio” or “Tarantella”? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998/38 "2004-08-25T03:48:52Z")
A couple more Mexican cliches, besides _La Cucaracha_, are the _Mexican Hat Dance_ and _Cielito Lindo._ ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998/39 "2004-08-25T03:51:41Z")
Och, if ye hear ‘Scotland the Brave’ ye know there soon be Scottish people aboot! Speaking of aboot, what do you suppose is Canada’s theme? Not the the flapping heads and beady little eyes don’t give them away visually. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998/40 "2004-08-25T04:16:33Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > Och, if ye hear ‘Scotland the Brave’ ye know there soon be Scottish people aboot! > > Speaking of aboot, what do you suppose is Canada’s theme? Not the the flapping heads and beady little eyes don’t give them away visually. 😉 **Coo roo coo coo, coo coo coo coo** ps - we don’t say “aboot”. We say “abowt” and Americans say “Abaaht” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-ethnic-cliches-do-these-tunes-have-names/260998.md?page=1)