# musical impact of the Beatles? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 28, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859 "2005-09-28T15:51:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Innuendo\_Hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Innuendo\_Hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Innuendo_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859/21 "2005-09-29T12:44:57Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > The Beatles didn’t originate many of the things they are credited for Like what? ---
**Author:** ![Innuendo\_Hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Innuendo\_Hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Innuendo_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859/22 "2005-09-29T12:49:03Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > If they heard an interest riff played on a record or by another group, they would use it. The vast majority of The Beatles songs were original compositions with completely unique melodies. Name some McCartney/Lennon or Harrison songs that had plagiarized riffs. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859/23 "2005-09-29T12:55:44Z")
> [@Innuendo Hunter](#): > > The vast majority of The Beatles songs were original compositions with completely unique melodies. Name some McCartney/Lennon or Harrison songs that had plagiarized riffs. I think this is more of a case where, say, Lennon got into Dylan and wrote “Hide Your Love Away” - no direct rip-off, but Lennon wrote a “Lennon does Dylan” tune and made it work - in a great way. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859/24 "2005-09-29T13:09:27Z")
> [@Innuendo Hunter](#): > > The vast majority of The Beatles songs were original compositions with completely unique melodies. Name some McCartney/Lennon or Harrison songs that had plagiarized riffs. “Sun King” was a ripoff of Fleetwood Mac’s “Albatross.” “I Feel Fine”: riff pinched from Bobby Parker’s “Watch Your Step.” “I Saw Her Standing There”: bassline from Chuck Berry’s “I’m Talking About You” “If I Needed Someone”: guitar part lifted from the Byrds’ “Bells of Rhymney” There are more, of course; none of this is a secret. Paul McCartney himself said “We nicked everything. We were the biggest thieves going.” ---
**Author:** ![seosamh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@seosamh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seosamh)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859/25 "2005-09-29T13:20:58Z")
Of course, The Beatles heavily influenced another British band, [The Rutles](http://www.rutles.org/), whose tunes were remarkably similar (e.g. “I Must Be In Love”, “Ouch” and “Hold My Hand (Yeah Yeah)”). So remarkably similar, I believe, that they lost a copyright case. ---
**Author:** ![Innuendo\_Hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Innuendo\_Hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Innuendo_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859/26 "2005-09-29T14:11:29Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > “Sun King” was a ripoff of Fleetwood Mac’s “Albatross.” > “I Feel Fine”: riff pinched from Bobby Parker’s “Watch Your Step.” > “I Saw Her Standing There”: bassline from Chuck Berry’s “I’m Talking About You” > “If I Needed Someone”: guitar part lifted from the Byrds’ “Bells of Rhymney” > > There are more, of course; none of this is a secret. Paul McCartney himself said “We nicked everything. We were the biggest thieves going.” Bah, it’s not the same riff. Similiar, but not exactly the same. And that McCartney quote is taken out of context. ---
**Author:** ![Innuendo\_Hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Innuendo\_Hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Innuendo_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859/27 "2005-09-29T14:16:37Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I think this is more of a case where, say, Lennon got into Dylan and wrote “Hide Your Love Away” - no direct rip-off, but Lennon wrote a “Lennon does Dylan” tune and made it work - in a great way. Exactly, they were influenced by a variety of different musical styles. > [@](#): > > The Beatles didn’t originate many of the things they are credited for, but they did popularize or make such things mainstream. If they heard an interest riff played on a record or by another group, they would use it. Implys that the Beatles were unoriginal and hack songwriters, which is laughable. The Beatles were the greatest innovators in pop music history. And McCartney/Lennon were greatest songwriting duo ever. Period! ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859/28 "2005-09-29T14:20:34Z")
> [@Innuendo Hunter](#): > > Implys that the Beatles were unoriginal and hack songwriters, which is laughable. The Beatles were the greatest innovators in pop music history. And McCartney/Lennon were greatest songwriting duo ever. Period! Chill the hell out; it implies nothing of the sort. I agree with your last two statements. It doesn’t take anything at all away from the Beatles to trace the origin of some of their ideas. Everybody steals from everybody else; that’s how any art form progresses. What makes you innovative is how much you give back, and the Beatles gave back tenfold everything they took. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859/29 "2005-09-29T17:02:37Z")
> [@seosamh](#): > > Of course, The Beatles heavily influenced another British band, [The Rutles](http://www.rutles.org/), whose tunes were remarkably similar (e.g. “I Must Be In Love”, “Ouch” and “Hold My Hand (Yeah Yeah)”). So remarkably similar, I believe, that they lost a copyright case. Remember that Beatles documentary a few years back, the one that went for two or three nights on prime-time TV? Felt like I’d already seen most of it parodied on _The Rutles_ back in 1978. The Ché Stadium concert, how everyone ‘helped themselves’ at Rutle Corps, the whole nine yards. _The Rutles. The Prefab Four._ ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859/30 "2005-09-29T18:23:39Z")
They did something very important that influenced music. They wrote their own songs. This was not a standard practice and their first albums did feature songs written by other people. But they started writing all of their own songs. This was a break from the ‘studio system’, to borrow a term from Hollywood. Instead of a good looking/singer having their career carefully crafted by men in suits selecting their songs. Elivs didn’t write his songs. Sinatra didn’t write his songs. Maybe they are like NASA. No, they didn’t invent all the stuff they get credit for but they went to the freaking moon. ---
**Author:** ![priapus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@priapus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/priapus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859/31 "2005-09-29T22:19:29Z")
I was 10 when the Beatles made their mark in America.I don’t think you can separate the cultural aspect from the music.It was packaged together.They were assigned roles to play,John the smart one,Paul the cute one, funny Ringo and quiet George.I remember reading the notes on the back of an album and they weren’t older than 21. Man, oh,man the music was so new and it wasn’t.A lot of stuff was from the 50’s,including “Then There was you” from the "Music Man.All of a sudden,the 4 Freshman “do” the Beatles,Mitch Miller “does” the Beatles.It was a storm around the world.It presaged the “generation gap”.I still get goosebumps when I think about my first pair of pinching Beatle boots and nehru jacket ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859/32 "2005-09-29T22:28:03Z")
George basically introduced the Sitar to the west. It wasn’t unknown but it went from barely known to everybody knowing it. Could any other group other than the Beatles have caused such a huge uproar with John’s “Bigger than Jesus” Statement? It was only so huge because it was true at the time. 😉 One of the not so good things the Beatles inspired: I have heard VH1 say they were the first Boy Band. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859/33 "2005-09-29T22:40:36Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > One of the not so good things the Beatles inspired: > I have heard VH1 say they were the first Boy Band. :eek: I’m pretty sure that was Timberlake (as I rememeber it) just trying to claim some linkage to the Beatles. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859/34 "2005-09-30T00:02:28Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Some firsts that come to mind: > > The Beatles used more that the standard 3 chord format. They used 6 and 7 chords in songs that were richly melodic in comparison to their peers. While the Beatles did write a number of tunes that went beyond the I-IV-V musical chord format, I can’t give them tremendous credit for being “the first” to do this. Even other tunesmiths of the 50s and 60s were writing chords with I-vi-IV-V and I-iii-IV-V and I-ii-V and many other chord varieties; the Beatles did this well but they were hardly the first to do so. > [@Innuendo Hunter](#): > > They pioneered the practice of running voices and instruments through a Leslie Speaker Considering the Leslie speaker was invented in 1941 I somehow doubt the Beatles were the ones who pioneered its use for “instruments” twenty years later. The speaker was originally designed for the Hammond organ and popularized in that fashion. Perhaps the Beatles popularized its use for other instruments apart from the organ; this wording is a bit vague. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859/35 "2005-09-30T03:30:14Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Considering the Leslie speaker was invented in 1941 I somehow doubt the Beatles were the ones who pioneered its use for “instruments” twenty years later. The speaker was originally designed for the Hammond organ and popularized in that fashion. Perhaps the Beatles popularized its use for other instruments apart from the organ; this wording is a bit vague. I read somewhere that using the Leslie in the way the Beatles did required physically breaking into the mechanism and rewiring it; that kind of thing certainly wasn’t done in recording studios prior to the Beatles. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859/36 "2005-09-30T05:01:08Z")
> [@John Corrado](#): > > The Beatles’ album “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band” was one of the first concept albums, and while not particularly conceptual by today’s standards- the title, the artwork, the opening song, crowd noise stuck at the beginning of the second side, and the next-to-last song; compared to such albums as The Wall and Thick As A Brick, it’s not particularly much - it’s still the most that had been done by that point. It was also the first album ever to have the lyrics printed in it. I don’t know that that was specifically The Beatles’ idea rather than Martin or someone else, but it did mark something else new. Not to mention according the words a new prominence in popular music. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859/37 "2005-09-30T13:17:39Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > It was also the first album ever to have the lyrics printed in it. I don’t know that that was specifically The Beatles’ idea rather than Martin or someone else, but it did mark something else new. Not to mention according the words a new prominence in popular music. Possibly the first _rock_ album to have printed lyrics; definitely not the first pop music album to do so. One earlier example I can vouch for is _The Singing Nun_ from 1963. ---
**Author:** ![Innuendo\_Hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Innuendo\_Hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Innuendo_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859/38 "2005-09-30T13:29:44Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Considering the Leslie speaker was invented in 1941 I somehow doubt the Beatles were the ones who pioneered its use for “instruments” twenty years later. The speaker was originally designed for the Hammond organ and popularized in that fashion. Perhaps the Beatles popularized its use for other instruments apart from the organ; this wording is a bit vague. Yeah, I was a bit unclear. They were one of the first acts (maybe _the_ first) to hook up a guitar through a rotating Leslie speaker cabinet, which previously was used for just organs. Lennons vocals on _Tommorrow Never Knows_ was run through a Leslie speaker. As far as I know, that was the first that had ever been done on a record. I mentioned Martin and Ken Townshend previously as two people largely responsible for these studio innovations. **Geoff Emerick** needs to be mentioned as well, particularly on _Revolver_ and _Sgt. Pepper_. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859/39 "2005-09-30T13:54:44Z")
> [@Innuendo Hunter](#): > > They were one of the first acts (maybe _the_ first) to hook up a guitar through a rotating Leslie speaker cabinet, which previously was used for just organs. Not positive, but I believe that honor goes to the Beach Boys for “Pet Sounds” (the track, not the album). ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859/40 "2005-09-30T14:06:58Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > They did something very important that influenced music. > > They wrote their own songs. > This was not a standard practice and their first albums did feature songs written by other people. But they started writing all of their own songs. This was a break from the ‘studio system’, to borrow a term from Hollywood. Instead of a good looking/singer having their career carefully crafted by men in suits selecting their songs. Elivs didn’t write his songs. Sinatra didn’t write his songs. Well, that’s not strictly true. People like the Everly Brothers (an influence), Roy Orbison, Bob Dylan, Buddy Holly, The Shadows (to a certain degree – they were one of Britain’s top groups pre-Beatles), Sam Cooke all wrote their own songs. So it wasn’t all that new for the Beatles to be doing it; the trend toward singer/songwriters had already begun when they hit it big. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-impact-of-the-beatles/323859.md?page=3)