# Musical theater folk: Please explain the Stinger **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 27, 2006, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-theater-folk-please-explain-the-stinger/385701 "2006-12-27T02:12:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-theater-folk-please-explain-the-stinger/385701/21 "2006-12-27T19:02:14Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] You do need to clue in the audience that a piece is ending. Take a look at classical music: it usually has an identifiable ending, generally leading up to a final chord. Listen to the final 30 seconds of any symphony and you’ll notice it. Even if you’ve never heard a classical piece before, you can always tell with it’s just about to end. [/QUOTE] Perhaps the greatest ever demonstration of this fact: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9wNiYra3xU](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9wNiYra3xU) ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-theater-folk-please-explain-the-stinger/385701/22 "2006-12-27T19:06:01Z")
Gee, now that you mention it, I can see how you didn’t mean to imply that actors were stupid: > [@Beware of Doug](#): > > Actors and dancers are basically cattle and need a dumb-simple code Wait a minute, on second thought, no I can’t. You’re the one who came into the thread with the chip on your shoulder here — and speaking as a fellow musician, you’re the one with the problem. Any decent actor knows that no matter how small his part is, he’s got to do what the script says, all of what the script says, and only what the script says — or what the director says, should the director choose to override the directives inthe script. If a musician in the orchestra pit can’t rise to that level, he shouldn’t be there. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-theater-folk-please-explain-the-stinger/385701/23 "2006-12-27T19:09:07Z")
_“hypothesise - to give a possible but not yet proved explanation for something”_ It’s not like there’s never been a thread asking “what does a conductor do? Do musicians really need somebody to tell them when to play?” ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-theater-folk-please-explain-the-stinger/385701/24 "2006-12-27T19:18:52Z")
Yeah, and if he had been fair about his hypothesizing, he would have included, “Because musicians are cattle.” But no, his reasons were for everybody else’s deficiencies except those of the musicians — he blamed tech crew, actors, and even the composer. ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-theater-folk-please-explain-the-stinger/385701/25 "2006-12-27T19:29:59Z")
If anyone is interested in one take on the process, rent **Topsy Turvy** ; it takes place in the D’Orly Carte Opera Company around the time G&S wrote **The Mikado**. It may be apocryphal, but it is pretty dead on when it comes to the creator’s vision versus the that of the performers. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-theater-folk-please-explain-the-stinger/385701/26 "2006-12-27T19:32:42Z")
I can’t believe you’re the one saying someone else has a chip on their shoulder, **Fish**. All I see in the OP is a valid question phrased in a tongue-in-cheek manner. [QUOTE=Fish] Why is this a recent phenomenon? **Who cares?** It’s probably just a thing… [/QUOTE] If you don’t care, then why are you in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-theater-folk-please-explain-the-stinger/385701/27 "2006-12-27T19:34:35Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] All I see in the OP is a valid question phrased in a tongue-in-cheek manner. [/QUOTE] The OP may have been tongue in cheek (tho I didn’t get that) but the starter’s later posts were not. I’m with **Fish** , frankly, tho maybe not as vehemently. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-theater-folk-please-explain-the-stinger/385701/28 "2006-12-27T19:34:39Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] It’s just that a song that doesn’t have a clear ending is often very unsatisfying. [/QUOTE] Not unlike the Iraq war. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-theater-folk-please-explain-the-stinger/385701/29 "2006-12-27T19:57:25Z")
Goddammit t’hell, I want all you righteous folks off my back. This was a potboiler nightclub cabaret revue with about ten people involved, total. I said before it was my first show and no one was telling me dick. The orchestrations were hurried and sketchy. I had no clue what not to do from actors, MD, director or anyone - even after I did it. _Nobody said nuthin’ till it was too late._ All I was guilty of in this pretentious little nightclub revue was being green, not reading anybody’s mind, and assuming we were all in it together and that it was all as informal as it looked. You folks are coming on like I stood up in the middle of a fully scored, cued and staged production and blew squealing wild crap like I was Ornette Friggn Coleman. I would NEVER do that. ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-theater-folk-please-explain-the-stinger/385701/30 "2006-12-27T20:07:46Z")
\*\*BoDoug \*\* - you did not make this thread about little caberet shows - you made it about full scale Broadway productions - please reread what you posted ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-theater-folk-please-explain-the-stinger/385701/31 "2006-12-27T20:17:32Z")
Oh. Fer. Cryin. Out. Loud. I can’t defend myself from a three-way ass-chewing because I made a small freakin’ digression? Is the theater like so many other places: show a speck of blood and the flock will peck you raw? ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-theater-folk-please-explain-the-stinger/385701/32 "2006-12-27T20:28:17Z")
You get back what you dish out. Sorry if you don’t like how that works. But miraculously, you’re right: every musical for the last 30 years has a long sustained note at the end because actors are cattle, techies rely on amazingly obvious musical cues to know what they’re doing, and composers are all hacks. Fortunately, no other hypotheses need be considered. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-theater-folk-please-explain-the-stinger/385701/33 "2006-12-27T20:33:08Z")
[QUOTE=Fish] You get back what you dish out. [/QUOTE] What is your problem? **Beware of Doug** hasn’t been “dishing out” anything. You’re just being far too po-faced about harmless comments. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-theater-folk-please-explain-the-stinger/385701/34 "2006-12-27T20:35:54Z")
If it’s any comfort at all to you, **Fish** , I’m as fed up with your POV as you are with mine. I’m bailing on this thread before I, or anyone else, says anything more I may regret. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-theater-folk-please-explain-the-stinger/385701/35 "2006-12-27T20:41:43Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] What is your problem? **Beware of Doug** hasn’t been “dishing out” anything. You’re just being far too po-faced about harmless comments. [/QUOTE] Sorry, but I don’t read “harmless idle comment” in his OP, and nothing but bitterness in his subsequent posts. I think he’s slandering actors and giving musicians a bad name, which gets me coming and going. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-theater-folk-please-explain-the-stinger/385701/36 "2006-12-27T20:46:32Z")
Ah well, enjoy your anger. I didn’t feel he was giving us a bad name. So I’m bailing, too. ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-theater-folk-please-explain-the-stinger/385701/37 "2006-12-27T20:47:26Z")
I’ll add only this - **BoDoug** , we cannot see your mood, or hear your inflections - we can only read what you typed. Please keep that in mind whenever you post. Often what is intended is not what is perceived, and that’s where the hurt comes in. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-theater-folk-please-explain-the-stinger/385701/38 "2006-12-27T20:59:04Z")
It’s okay, **GorillaMan** , I’ll just say I was being “tongue in cheek” and that absolves me from the need to apologize or care about how anybody feels about what I said. Wait a minute, no it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-theater-folk-please-explain-the-stinger/385701/39 "2006-12-27T21:34:39Z")
[QUOTE=scotandrsn] I would say that the audience needs it to know when to applaud. [/QUOTE] Paging [Salieri!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadeus)🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musical-theater-folk-please-explain-the-stinger/385701.md?page=1)