# Musicals that are "musicals" in-universe **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 9, 2019, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304 "2019-04-09T22:56:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/1 "2019-04-09T22:56:06Z")
Most musicals (movies and plays) feature songs that are not being sung as songs, but are dramatizing the thoughts and statements of the characters (Maria is singing “Raindrops on Roses” to cheer up the kids, but “I have confidence” is probably just an expression of her desire to cheer herself up, and if you asked the Reverend Mother about what happened during the “Climb Ev’ry Mountain” scene, she’d almost certainly say that she just had a serious conversation about Maria’s need to confront her problems and not run away from them). I was trying to think of a musical in which all the songs are “real” - and had a hard time. Are all the songs in “Pitch Perfect” (or “Sing”) songs that are being performed by the characters? If so, then those would be examples of what I’m talking about. Just thought of an interesting case - “Enchanted”; Giselle comes from a world in which music naturally turns up to score people’s expressions of their deepest thoughts - and when she comes to our world, that keeps happening (and we can tell that it’s “really” happening, because (at least some of the time) people are startled to see it occur. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/2 "2019-04-09T23:14:25Z")
The Buffy episode [Once More With Feeling](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Once_More,_with_Feeling_(Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer)). A magic spell causes people to spontaneously break out into song and dance routines. The character are aware that they are singing and dancing, but don’t know what’s causing it. [Five Guys Named Moe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Guys_Named_Moe). A story about a group of professional singers with a repertoire of songs. At various points in the plot they sing songs appropriate to what is happening. We can assume that they are songs that they already know and sing professionally. Part of the plot is them performing their act in a club. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/3 "2019-04-09T23:45:40Z")
Just saw a movie that’s an example of this–_Meet Me in Las Vegas_. The characters go to a bunch of casinos and see performances by various artists, including Lena Horne. The few times one of the cast sings something, it’s obviously a song he/she already knows, that merely applies to their situation. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/4 "2019-04-10T00:01:18Z")
I think _White Christmas_ qualifies; most of the songs are being performed on-stage or with an audience. I don’t think there are any solo, introspective songs, which is what I think you’re trying to exclude here. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/5 "2019-04-10T00:03:05Z")
Thanks all. Should have thought of the Buffy episode and White Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/6 "2019-04-10T00:11:51Z")
Many shows where the story is about a one or several people creating and performing a show, including \*Fame \*and _The Blues Brothers_. ---
**Author:** ![Pazu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pazu/32/15522_2.png) [@Pazu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pazu)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/7 "2019-04-10T00:12:50Z")
_The Magicians_ has done three in-world musical episodes so far: [Season 2 episode 9, “Lesser Evils”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bxYEiZhSlQ), [season 3 episode 9, “All That Josh”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0mfBt3mhtc), and [season 4 episode 10, “All That Hard, Glossy Armor”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnsY4SJJMF8). I liked “Under Pressure” the best, but I enjoyed all of them. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/8 "2019-04-10T00:27:44Z")
In the movie _Cabaret_, nearly every song is either performed on the stage of the Kit Kat Klub or in a place where singing would take place (e.g., “The Future Belongs to Me”). _Nunsense_ takes place on the stage of a middle school and AFAIK, all songs are part of the stage show. _Holiday Inn_. All the songs are production numbers on stage, either in a nightclub or the Inn. _Footlight Parade_. The songs are all either stage rehearsals or an actual performance (nominally – since it’s Busby Berkeley, the numbers could not have been performed on stage). It the same thing for the movie versions of _42nd Street_ and _Golddiggers of 1933_ ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/9 "2019-04-10T00:53:35Z")
Sister Act ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/10 "2019-04-10T01:15:42Z")
> [@Pazu](#): > > _The Magicians_ has done three in-world musical episodes so far: [Season 2 episode 9, “Lesser Evils”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bxYEiZhSlQ), [season 3 episode 9, “All That Josh”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0mfBt3mhtc), and [season 4 episode 10, “All That Hard, Glossy Armor”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnsY4SJJMF8). > > I liked “Under Pressure” the best, but I enjoyed all of them. Grew to became one of my favorite shows. And, yes, they all sing and are aware they are singing and that singing is happening around them. Great show. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/11 "2019-04-10T02:56:43Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I think _White Christmas_ qualifies; most of the songs are being performed on-stage or with an audience. I don’t think there are any solo, introspective songs, which is what I think you’re trying to exclude here. Well, the OP also seemed to imply conversational songs. [Here’s a song from _white Christmas_ that’s more along the lines of _Climb Every Mountain_ (or _Sixteen Going on Seventeen_).](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXKxazgio2s) [_Duets_ seems to qualify, though.](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0134630/) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/12 "2019-04-10T03:22:12Z")
There is [the Princesses scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yirc35yIjfc) in _Ralph Breaks the Internet_. It also happens in the musical episode of _Community_ (including [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0qEliLbojo) song.) There are also several times in _My Little Pony Friendship is Magic_ where someone points out something about that they are singing. I can only think of two of the examples off the top of my head–[the first song in the series](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWyiKemQ-UQ) is from a strongly fourth-wall leaning/reality-warping character and as she starts to sing, one character (new to the group) says “Tell me she’s not…?” and another says “She is.” It isn’t said explicitly, but it is pretty apparent that they are referencing to breaking into song. [The second is from the movie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rgBWhNIDOE), where the same straight-laced character tries to tell another character that it is no time for a song. And wasn’t there some show where a main character kept noticing the background music for the episode, but nobody else did? ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/13 "2019-04-10T04:22:38Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Are all the songs in “Pitch Perfect” (or “Sing”) songs that are being performed by the characters? I saw _Sing_ maybe a year or so ago, but I believe you’re correct – as I recall, all the songs are delivered in the context of the characters auditioning, rehearsing, or performing. (IIRC, the main character doesn’t perform any songs. He’s not koala-fied to sing. Buh-dum-tish) > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Many shows where the story is about a one or several people creating and performing a show, including \*Fame \*and _The Blues Brothers_. I was also going to mention _The Blues Brothers_. It sort of bends the rules a little, such as when various characters step out of their day jobs for a minute to deliver a perfectly choreographed song-and-dance number, complete with backup dancers. But I agree the songs are intended to be in-world performances. The movie version (I haven’t seen the stage version) of _Chicago_ is kinda on-topic. All the musical numbers are supposed to be in Roxy’s imagination, aren’t they? I viewed it as the action taking place conventionally in-world, but Roxy passing everything through the filter of her stardom-obsessed brain. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/14 "2019-04-10T04:48:30Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Sister Act Oops, should have read the OP better. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/15 "2019-04-10T11:38:54Z")
Would Scrooge the musical count? The majority of the songs from what I remember all are sung by the characters. Some of the songs make sense, the kids in the beginning were making money singing at doors so singing at Scrooge makes some sense. Some of the other songs are at parties and such. The only one that might not work would be “I Like Life” with the Ghost of Christmas Present. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/16 "2019-04-10T11:59:15Z")
Your Word of the Day is: **[diegetic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diegetic_music).** > [@Wikipedia](#): > > If the characters in the film can (or could) hear the music the audience hears, then that music is called diegetic. It is also called source music by professionals in the industry. It is said to be within the narrative sphere of the film. For instance, if a character in the film is playing a piano, or turns on a CD player, the resulting sound is diegetic. The cantina band sequence in the original Star Wars is an example of diegetic music in film, with the band playing instruments and swaying to the beat, as patrons are heard reacting to the second piece the band plays. > > By contrast, the background music that cannot be heard by the characters in the movie is termed non-diegetic or extradiegetic. An example of this is in Rocky, where Bill Conti’s “Gonna Fly Now” plays non-diegetically as Rocky makes his way through his training regimen finishing on the top steps of the Philadelphia Museum of Art with his hands raised in the air. **Moulin Rouge!** is a mix of diegetic and non-diegetic songs, and it’s sometimes hard to tell the difference. “Diamonds Are A Girl’s Best Friend” - diegetic. “Like A Virgin” - not diegetic (I assume). “Roxanne” - a little of both. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/17 "2019-04-10T12:54:04Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Well, the OP also seemed to imply conversational songs. [Here’s a song from _white Christmas_ that’s more along the lines of _Climb Every Mountain_ (or _Sixteen Going on Seventeen_).](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXKxazgio2s) For those who haven’t clicked on the link, the song in question is “Count Your Blessings.” I’d call this one sort of a mix. It’s true that Bing Crosby and Rosemary Clooney are singing about their feelings here. But Crosby’s character is a songwriter, so it’s not impossible that he would have written a song about this. Later in the film, Crosby says, “Let’s rehearse that ‘Blessings’ number.” So even within the film, this is clearly a song that they are planning to include in the show they’re putting together. I’d lean toward this being a diegetic song as well. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/18 "2019-04-10T12:58:51Z")
_The Drowsy Chaperone_. All the songs are played on a record player (yes, record) by the Man in the Chair; the staging is his image of what the show looked like. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/19 "2019-04-10T13:52:32Z")
I think both [Once](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Once_(film)) and [Sing Street](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sing_Street), both by John Carney, qualify, although it’s been a while since I saw them. (BTW, the former is fairly well-known but the latter is not, but I liked it a lot and recommend it.) ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2019, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/20 "2019-04-10T13:55:59Z")
The only song in the Blues Brothers movie that is not set in the real world is Aretha Franklin’s Think. People in restaurants do not break into elaborate song-and-dance routines. And for that song, especially Blue Lou’s sax, I will make an exception. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304.md?page=2)