# Musicals that are "musicals" in-universe **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 9, 2019, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304 "2019-04-09T22:56:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Karen\_Lingel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karen_lingel/32/18649_2.png) [@Karen\_Lingel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karen_Lingel)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2019, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/41 "2019-04-11T00:36:07Z")
_Something Rotten_ is a musical about putting on a musical. Some of the songs are therefore part of the “XXXX: The Musical” they are performing (don’t want to spoil the name of the musical-in-a-musical.) ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2019, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/42 "2019-04-11T00:48:04Z")
The Simpsons, [A Fish Called Selma](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2E1m90YSpA). _I hate every ape I see From Chimpan A to Chimpan Z._ Beautiful. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2019, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/43 "2019-04-11T00:58:25Z")
> [@susan](#): > > The Simpsons, [A Fish Called Selma](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2E1m90YSpA). > > _I hate every ape I see > From Chimpan A to Chimpan Z._ > > Beautiful. That episode doesn’t do quite what the OP is looking for, but [this](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0701112/characters/nm0810379) one does. ---
**Author:** ![txtumbleweed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@txtumbleweed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txtumbleweed)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2019, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/44 "2019-04-11T02:05:39Z")
The Scrubs episode [“My Musical”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MasJtEJTOJk) is heard as song in universe, the conceit of the episode being a patient (the delightful Stephanie D’Abruzzo) who collapsed at the park hears everything in song. So whenever she is in the scene the cast sings. Be sure to enjoy [“Guy Love”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL4L4Uv5rf0), [a great Dr Cox Rant](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eHmXgxbaeI), and the classic [“Everything Comes Down to Poo.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsVgi8hoFFc) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2019, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/45 "2019-04-11T02:26:00Z")
How about **The Wizard of Oz**? I only remember one musical number from when Dorothy is in Kansas (although it’s a beaut, _Over the Rainbow_), and I think she is alone when she sings that. All the rest of the songs take place in Oz; maybe that’s just how people, and scarecrows, and tin men, and cowardly lions communicate there. I doubt that all the music in the film is meant to be diegetic, but I don’t remember anything in the movie that directly contradicts the notion, either. And there’s a scene in **My Fair Lady** that I always thought was odd. When Eliza is singing _Just You Wait_ about Henry Higgins, it certainly seems to be non-diegetic. But as the song ends Eliza notices that Higgins is watching her and she looks sheepish. If she wasn’t actually singing, why does she act as if she’s been caught doing something embarrassing? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2019, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/46 "2019-04-11T02:48:07Z")
> [@Karen\_Lingel](#): > > _Something Rotten_ is a musical about putting on a musical. Some of the songs are therefore part of the “XXXX: The Musical” they are performing (don’t want to spoil the name of the musical-in-a-musical.) Some, but most of the songs are not: “A Musical,” “Right Hand Man”, “God I Hate Shakespeare”, and “Hard to be a Bard” don’t take place on stage. _Kiss Me Kate_ also has some songs set on stage, but several are not. ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2019, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/47 "2019-04-11T14:35:35Z")
It has been a while since I have seen _A Chorus Line_, but doesn’t all the singing take place on the stage during auditions and rehearsals? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/48 "2019-04-11T15:13:05Z")
> [@xizor](#): > > It has been a while since I have seen _A Chorus Line_, but doesn’t all the singing take place on the stage during auditions and rehearsals? Yes, but they’re not “show songs”; they’re the chorus members singing about their lives. Only “One” is a show song. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2019, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/49 "2019-04-11T23:04:41Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > How about **The Wizard of Oz**? I only remember one musical number from when Dorothy is in Kansas (although it’s a beaut, _Over the Rainbow_), and I think she is alone when she sings that. All the rest of the songs take place in Oz; maybe that’s just how people, and scarecrows, and tin men, and cowardly lions communicate there. I doubt that all the music in the film is meant to be diegetic, but I don’t remember anything in the movie that directly contradicts the notion, either. > > And there’s a scene in **My Fair Lady** that I always thought was odd. When Eliza is singing _Just You Wait_ about Henry Higgins, it certainly seems to be non-diegetic. But as the song ends Eliza notices that Higgins is watching her and she looks sheepish. If she wasn’t actually singing, why does she act as if she’s been caught doing something embarrassing? The Oz songs may very well be “real” songs, but “Over the Rainbow” ruins it (by being a non-real (though wonderful!) song) in the movie. > [@Gyrate](#): > > Yes, but they’re not “show songs”; they’re the chorus members singing about their lives. Only “One” is a show song. Yep. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/50 "2019-04-11T23:31:27Z")
_True Stories_ is at least halfway there. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/51 "2019-04-12T09:36:10Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Thank you. I was too lazy to look that word up last night, but it’s exactly the word I needed for this thread. It’s a good word. One of my favorite _Archer_ moments is, IIRC, in one of the “Sea Tunt” episodes where Cheryl is reacting to the background music, finally putting her hands over her ears and exclaiming “It’s not diegetic!”. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/52 "2019-04-12T11:00:05Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Most musicals (movies and plays) feature songs that are not being sung as songs, but are dramatizing the thoughts and statements of the characters (Maria is singing “Raindrops on Roses” to cheer up the kids, but “I have confidence” is probably just an expression of her desire to cheer herself up, and if you asked the Reverend Mother about what happened during the “Climb Ev’ry Mountain” scene, she’d almost certainly say that she just had a serious conversation about Maria’s need to confront her problems and not run away from them). I was trying to think of a musical in which all the songs are “real” - and had a hard time. Are all the songs in “Pitch Perfect” (or “Sing”) songs that are being performed by the characters? If so, then those would be examples of what I’m talking about. “Crazy Ex-Girlfriend” is an interesting mix of these two. The protagonist is mentally ill, and several times in the show it’s mentioned that the songs are actually going on in her head, so they’re dramatizing her thoughts; but she’s aware that they’re going on and that it’s weird, unlike, say, Mary Poppins, where it’s just a fantasy of how things work. And every now and then another character comments on how now the songs are going on in their heads as well. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/53 "2019-04-12T14:43:26Z")
Then there’s the world of musical revues, which are set up as a concert performance. People just come out and sing songs. An example is _Beatlemania_, which is designed as a concert by the Beatles, with no real story. In the early 20th century, there were many of these revues: _Ziegfeld Follies, Earl Carroll’s Vanities_, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Tarataratara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Tarataratara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarataratara)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/54 "2019-04-12T21:51:09Z")
Camp Victor/Victoria Joyful Noise ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/55 "2019-04-12T21:53:39Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Then there’s the world of musical revues, which are set up as a concert performance. People just come out and sing songs. An example is _Beatlemania_, which is designed as a concert by the Beatles, with no real story. > > In the early 20th century, there were many of these revues: _Ziegfeld Follies, Earl Carroll’s Vanities_, etc. I was thinking that “The Band Wagon” which is about a musical revue (in part) would qualify, but “That’s Entertainment!” and “Shine on my Shoes” don’t fit. That being said, everyone should see “The Band Wagon” - it’s great. You can even (if you squint a bit) see how the numbers in the eventual production would have fit into the musical version of “Faust” which was the original conception of the (in-universe) production. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/56 "2019-04-12T23:03:37Z")
Three musicals by Dennis Potter are an interesting case. [Pennies From Heaven](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennies_from_Heaven_(TV_series))tells the story of a sheet music salesman in the 1930’s. He sees the world in terms of the songs he sells. His philosophy is that “songs tell the truth.” so, when people break out into song, (miming to 1930’s records) it is his perception of the world. [The Singing Detective](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Singing_Detective) tells the story of an author who is hospitalized an in considerable pain. He’s writing a script for a film noir style movie, featuring a 1940’s private detective who is also a nightclub singer. His current reality, the film script, and memories from childhood all start to blur at the edges. Some of the songs are real, remembering his father singing, or his detective singing at the nightclub. Others exist in his pain-induced hallucinations. These again used the device of actors miming to old records. [Lipstick on Your Collar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipstick_on_Your_Collar_(TV_series))used a similar device. IMHO, a pretty weak series. ---
**Author:** ![Topologist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/topologist/32/3208_2.png) [@Topologist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Topologist)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/57 "2019-04-19T19:35:40Z")
One of my favorites, the musical episode of _Once Upon a Time_, “[The Song in Your Heart](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Song_in_Your_Heart).” A magic spell makes the characters sing, and they’re quite aware of it. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/58 "2019-04-19T20:43:52Z")
> [@](#): > > In the movie Cabaret, nearly every song is either performed on the stage of the Kit Kat Klub or in a place where singing would take place (e.g., “The Future Belongs to Me”). “Heirat” takes place in the boarding house, but if I remember correctly, the two performers are singing along to a record. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/59 "2019-04-19T20:55:21Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > “Heirat” takes place in the boarding house, but if I remember correctly, the two performers are singing along to a record. The Pineapple song breaks the pattern though - Schultz and the landlady sing that purely as an expression of their feelings (as I recall). ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304/60 "2019-04-19T21:01:32Z")
After Hours on [The Horrifying Truth About Life Inside of Movie Musicals](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m8SdMf_hH0&list=PL5CC44F2C10A8415C&index=60&t=0s). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicals-that-are-musicals-in-universe/832304.md?page=4)