# Musicians: Do You Agree With This? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 10, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559 "2015-09-10T20:57:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559/1 "2015-09-10T20:57:46Z")
I cannot believe Billy Joel once told a crowd (recorded on live video) at University of Pennsylvania to STOP clapping along with the music because it throws him off. I can’t believe a professional rock musician would say this! I think he claimed their timing was off, but still…what the heck does he do at Madison Square Garden? Can’t a professional drown this out? Wear head phones? Turn up his monitor? (Or, just simply take out his hearing aid? :o) I’ve never known a musician to say this! What’s the SD on this? Is it a real problem to a good musician? And, how have you seen other professionals handle this? ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559/2 "2015-09-10T21:47:00Z")
To a good musician, it is not a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559/3 "2015-09-10T22:02:33Z")
I’ve seen people test a theory that if you play back someone’s own voice to them at a slight delay, it makes it almost impossible for them to talk. > **[Delayed auditory feedback](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_Auditory_Feedback)** > > Delayed Auditory Feedback (DAF), also called delayed sidetone, is a type of altered auditory feedback that consists of extending the time between speech and auditory perception. It can consist of a device that enables a user to speak into a microphone and then hear their voice in headphones a fraction of a second later. Some DAF devices are hardware; DAF computer software is also available. Most delays that produce a noticeable effect are between 50–200 milliseconds (ms). DAF usage (with a 175 It... So if, due to the distances involved, the accoustics, or whatever, the audience was off by 175ms, it could have thrown him off. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559/4 "2015-09-10T23:20:15Z")
Years ago, I was at a concert by the Flying Burrito Brothers, which was being recorded for a live album. The crowd began to clap and they told us to not do it, saying we were nowhere on the beat. It was probably the same thing here. If you’re not clapping on the beat, it’s like the drummer is incompetent, and a big crowd can overwhelm the drummer, so the other musicians can’t play properly. The bass player might be playing with the drummer’s beat, while the guitarist hears the crowd and can’t hear the drummer. So the band you’re in starts playing different tunes. ---
**Author:** ![stillownedbysetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@stillownedbysetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stillownedbysetters)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559/5 "2015-09-10T23:21:09Z")
I could see it if you were performing as part of an ensemble where you had to be able to hear your co-musicians for cues and timing, but it does seem a bit rude to bite the hand that feeds you. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559/6 "2015-09-10T23:59:39Z")
Seems kind of dickish. OTOH, as an audience member, I _hate_ that shit. Large crowds generally have the rhythm of a retarded kid with a basketball (sorry, I had a long day and can’t think of a clever analogy). ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559/7 "2015-09-11T00:06:05Z")
“Quite a bit of natural rhythm here tonight. I see some of you are clapping on the first beat. Some of you are clapping on the second and fourth beat. Some of you are clapping on the ‘and’ of one and the third beat of a quintuplet that begins on the fourth beat of the bar. Now just get the groove going. Ain’t it funky now!”–Frank Zappa ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559/8 "2015-09-11T00:24:22Z")
This is as good a time as any to share one of my favorite musical moments, courtesy of Harry Connick, Jr. In this concert, the fans are clapping along on the 1 & 3 down beats rather than the 2 & 4 back beats. (Basically, most pop music, including rock, jazz, blues, country, etc., accent the back beats. Think of where the snare is usually played. Classical music is on the 1 & 3.) Anyhow, this is kind of disconcerting. A competent musician will do fine even if the accents are played along by the audience on 1 & 3, but it does feel a bit off. A musician like Harry will turn the beat around and get the audience on the right side of the beat. 🙂 Listen at around 0:38-0:40 or so where Harry throws in an extra beat and gets the crowd unknowingly clapping on the 2 & 4. I love the reaction of who I think is the drummer in the background at 0:42, raising his hands in victory. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559/9 "2015-09-11T00:25:10Z")
Ninja’d ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559/10 "2015-09-11T00:27:20Z")
Whoa. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559/11 "2015-09-11T00:29:40Z")
Ninja! ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559/12 "2015-09-11T00:32:27Z")
I do a performance every year at TubaChristmas which has 500 tuba & baritone players playing on a stage and then a full audience of 3000 singing along (it’s billed as a sing-along). Even though the venue isn’t that big there’s definitely a disparity between the playing and the singing. I have no idea why the conductor doesn’t mention this to the players during practice. I can tell a lot of the younger and first-time players have a problem with this. I guess he just hopes the rest of us on stage can keep everyone on the beat with the director. Anyway yes it is distracting - and he plays some big venues so I’m sure it sounds like a mess - but he’s got the music in and ear monitor so…wtf? ---
**Author:** ![BaldDudePeekskill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5e925/32.png) [@BaldDudePeekskill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BaldDudePeekskill)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559/13 "2015-09-11T00:36:24Z")
I can totally empathize. I’m the music director at an Episcopalian Parish. We 'Piskies are very lovely, socially forward Christians with ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE OF RHYTHM. When I play a lively song and the congregation claps and gets into the music, they seldom ‘find’ the beat or maintain it consistently. And yes, it is a huge distraction. I’m a trained musician, but it’s hard to overcome. Even one booming soprano singing 1/32 of a beat behind can totally ruin my rhythm. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559/14 "2015-09-11T00:38:09Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > This is as good a time as any to share one of my favorite musical moments, courtesy of Harry Connick, Jr. In this concert, the fans are clapping along on the 1 & 3 down beats rather than the 2 & 4 back beats. (Basically, most pop music, including rock, jazz, blues, country, etc., accent the back beats. Think of where the snare is usually played. Classical music is on the 1 & 3.) Anyhow, this is kind of disconcerting. A competent musician will do fine even if the accents are played along by the audience on 1 & 3, but it does feel a bit off. A musician like Harry will turn the beat around and get the audience on the right side of the beat. 🙂 Listen at around 0:38-0:40 or so where Harry throws in an extra beat and gets the crowd unknowingly clapping on the 2 & 4. I love the reaction of who I think is the drummer in the background at 0:42, raising his hands in victory. 🙂 Was there meant to be a link in this post? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559/15 "2015-09-11T00:39:54Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Ninja! Was there a link? I don’t see a link…😕 ---
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559/16 "2015-09-11T01:10:14Z")
[Harry Connick Jr Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD3iaURppQw) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559/17 "2015-09-11T01:18:08Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Classical music is on the 1 & 3.) Duly noted for the next time I want to clap along to a string quartet. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559/18 "2015-09-11T01:19:17Z")
> [@zombywoof](#): > > [Harry Connick Jr Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD3iaURppQw) Thanks! That’s exactly the link. No idea what happened there. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559/19 "2015-09-11T01:36:08Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Thanks! That’s exactly the link. No idea what happened there. Nice link, thanks. That would be the time it’s most distracting. A solo instrument intro with no strong rhythm from the band. The audience’s beat is dominant and it takes all your concentration to play to your own internal beat and ignore what’s coming through your ears. Once the drums come in the audience becomes irrelevant (though he had handily fixed the problem by then anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559/20 "2015-09-11T01:48:34Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Nice link, thanks. That would be the time it’s most distracting. A solo instrument intro with no strong rhythm from the band. The audience’s beat is dominant and it takes all your concentration to play to your own internal beat and ignore what’s coming through your ears. Once the drums come in the audience becomes irrelevant (though he had handily fixed the problem by then anyway.) But don’t forget that piano, when played like that, is itself a rhythm instrument. I’m sure that helps. It could have been a cleaner switch, but I definitely appreciated it. The lack of cleanness makes me wonder if it was intentional or he actually did get off in just the right way. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/musicians-do-you-agree-with-this/730559.md?page=2)