I’m not experienced enough singer to say either way, how it changes the song. I’m still learning. I transpose when needed to fit my voice.
For guitar, I use a capo. If the song is in B flat then I’ll play it in G or A with a capo. If it’s in F then I’ll play with a capo in D.
I can play in E or F. I occasionally make myself practice in those keys.
I prefer easier keys for the guitar when I have to sing.
What in the world does this mean? And it’s hardly “woo” to hear differences in keys; every key has a different flavor/color, and you don’t need to be a musician to hear the difference. I’m sorry, but if I went to a concert of yours and everything was in A, I would be bored out of my mind.
Being able to transpose is a good skill to have, no doubt, but it sounds like you’re saying it doesn’t matter for the listener, and that a musician who plays in only one key is just as good as one who plays in multiple keys. And, I mean, sorry, but that’s just not true.
Some songs modulate (change keys) for effect.
The verses of More Than A Feeling is in D and the chorus is in G.
I can sing the verses. My head voice is still not strong enough for the chorus. I have to transpose the key.
It meant what it said, with brevity. Being able to transpose is the thing that enables musicians to play in different keys as you would prefer they do. So you’re downplaying it a little here, because you’re also saying it’s quite important.
It’s woo as far as I know. Maybe you can enlighten me. That’s why I’m here. What differences do non musicans hear? What about musicians?
It is the basic function of anyone playing rock or country or any vernacular music. It’s the way the whole country music industry operates. It’s the thing that’s happening in front of your eyes if you go see chuck berry music being played and the singer whispers to someone else to change the key. (See Hail Hail rock and Roll for details).
I am saying that I learn songs by playing them in A. I don’t entertain audiences that way. I already described my practice. No one plays sets all in the same key.
Let’s keep to the subject. I don’t think you’ll be able to point out the differential that you’re talking about, but can you just say ***why ***there would be a diffference in musical qualities between keys?
You are saying “flavors” to the keys is not woo. Cite?
I think that music is more interesting by having the power to change keys, than it was before, and it compensates for the loss of “simple ratios” or whatever happens when you go to equal temperament.
Humans have sensitivity to pitch. Right? I mean, sopranos singing a song in their upper register are going to sound different than a bass singing the same song two or three octaves below them. Are you suggesting that humans don’t have the ability to differentiate between high and low frequencies if they are within a certain range?
I mean when I hear an A (110), my brain interprets it as something specific. When I hear an A (880) my brain interprets it as something else. When I hear the G (784hz) immediately below that A, my brain interprets it differently.
Maybe not all people have the same sensitivity, just as not everybody has (or has developed) sensitivity to different colors, flavors, touches, etc, but that doesn’t mean that a difference doesn’t exist, or is imaginary.
To be honest, I’m having trouble refuting you because I’m not sure exactly what you’re on about. All I’m saying is that D-flat sounds a hell of a lot different than C, and there have been reams and reams of books devoted to the characteristics of each key. If they were all the same then why would they have different characteristics?
Also, you said the job of a musician was to “transcribe and play the song”. Did you mean transpose? Because it would still make your post as clear as mud, but it might help a little.
I can only yodel in Bb.
I’m on about the OP, and you? You weren’t saying something about two notes. You were saying I was incoherent or whatever the custom is here. But you seem to have no point except to gauge frequencies with meters, and assume that has something to do with musicianship. You can refute me by citing one fact out of these “reams” to support your position. I notice you aren’t going there. What characteristics are you referring to as being “diffferent”?
It’s a musicians function to translate a song into another key if needed or desired. You need to do it fast too, sometimes on the fly. And you can’t stop to regroup or prepare for different palates of emotional tones. And you won’t get them either. They don’t exist.
How do you know what key a song was composed in? What if the artist changed the key before it was known, but he made the wrong call. Do you think the public would know? “That should have been in D flat man. You blew it!”
Do you know how many songs get a key change after theyre written and before you know about it at all? Are you worried?
I think we’re veering far astray of the OP. My point is whether transposing for the convenience of making a song easier to play is common, and whether it is considered cheating by anyone on any level.
mmm
Um, before I back slowly out of the conversation and make a mental note not to interact with you anymore, I’d like to reiterate that all I ever said was that different keys have different sounds, and that anyone who can only play in one key is not as good as someone who can play in all of them. Sorry if that offended you, but maybe work a little on your circle of fifths?
Furthermore, you are the one who confused transposing with transcribing, and then got upset when I didn’t understand what you were trying to say. Maybe look up the difference using the Google?
And lastly, gkster already described some of the characteristics in, like, Post 10. Maybe take some of the anger out of your eyes and read it, I dunno?
Yes, and yes. It is common, for beginners. But it is also considered cheating by lots of people on lots of levels, if you are transposing only for the sake of playability.
You didn’t say what kind of music, or what kind of values are being addressed, but in most music it’s commonplace. I don’t even understand what “cheating” means in this context.
I’m not offended or angry. The different keys have different frequencies, but not different personalities.
You need to provide a cite for keys having characteristics that differentiate them other than the vibrational frequency, which give them a “personality”.
They don’t. It’s woo.
Post 10 is archaic and thin. You need more than that to call it reams.
I’m going to play Heroin in C tonight, and then follow that with “Row Row Row your boat” in D flat major. I hope we won’t have any “problems”
Somehow I’m certain you will.
I tend to agree with this. D flat does not sound qualitatively different to me than C. Just like I said above with my reference to Cherub Rock in Eb vs E. And I am musically trained, have played professionally, etc., so I’m not a musical idiot. If some people can feel differences between the keys, great. The only differences I feel are how different keys feel under my fingers. Maybe once you get noticeably higher and lower (like at least a full step for me, probably more like at least a major second) but I would notice other than the key sounding a bit higher or lower than I’m expecting. Linus and Lucy in C sounds just fine to me, and it’s supposed to be in E flat. I don’t feel any personality difference between those keys on a piano.
As for pre-equal temperament, of course there was modulation and all that. It’s not like keyboard instruments were tuned to a single key. There were various “well” temperaments which permitted playing in all twelve keys, but with different characteristics and sounds depending on which key you were playing in because frequency ratios differed. In one key a third may be flatter or sharper than in another key.
Linus and Lucy is supposed to be in A flat.
And the thing is, I never called them “personalities”. That’s drad dog’s bizarre method of trying to win this argument, to create things I never said and then drown them in a sea of rhetoric.
All I ever said, and continue to stand by and will until the day I die, is that different keys have different sounds. I wouldn’t write a rock ‘n’ roll tune in D flat, and it doesn’t have anything to do with the playability; to me, D flat sounds like a ballad key. It’s heavy, with a somber tone to it, a sad quality. And C to me *does * sound innocent and childlike, as mentioned before. Why do you think “Music Box Dancer” and “Tiny Dancer” are in C?
I haven’t said half the things he’s claiming I said, and I’m trying to stick to the OP as much as possible. I assume mmm is talking about current music, not this Tempered Clavier bullshit, and I’m answering his question by saying yes, it is cheating, and yes, it is common. My goodness.
I guess equal temperament flattened out the inconsistencies then.
So if each note has the same relationship to it’s dominant, subdominant etc. in perfect synchrony, transposition doesn’t change anything about the music, except the frequency. Also the notes must play other roles (dominant, mediant…) in perfect synchrony, or else the whole system would break down. ***It’s completely internally consistent *** with the purpose of interchanging keys for various pieces played.
I think hearing the diffference between two keys in casual listening, with no vocal cues, with a time gap in between, would take perfect pitch.